Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks

[Carling]

Luis, you seem obsessively pre-occupied with the strict interpretation of the word "slave".  Apparently, no one's definition but yours is acceptable.  Since you insist on being pedantic about it, I thought I would present a dictionary meaning of the word:

World English Dictionary
slave  (sleɪv)
 
— n
1.   a person legally owned by another and having no freedom of action or right to property
2.   a person who is forced to work for another against his will
3.   a person under the domination of another person or some habit or influence: a slave to television
4.   a person who works in harsh conditions for low pay
5.   a. a device that is controlled by or that duplicates the action of another similar device (the master device)
    b. ( as modifier ): slave cylinder

As you can see, the definition of "slave" is not as narrowly defined as you keep telling us it is.  From the dictionary meaning, a person can be a "slave" to heroin - something in which he HAS A CHOICE.  There are many forms of slavery - not all of them involve a person being shackled and unable to move.  Even on the plantation - slaves made attempts to escape while they worked the fields - or in the dark of night - ALWAYS with the threat of beating or death if they were caught and returned.  But many slaves still managed to escape - the city I live in has a house that was used for the "underground tunnel" that slaves escaped through to the north and to freedom. 

I think there are some that would agree with me - that this microscopic attention paid to what a slave can or cannot be - and that everyone that disagrees with you is just flat out wrong on the subject has gone on TOO LONG.  Let's end it.  OK?  Step away from the keyboard - take a walk or something.  Yes, I'll be the one to say it - if I had a choice to be a "real" slave in the sense of a black on the plantation - or a "virtual" slave trapped on welfare ............................ I would pick the virtual slave because I could free myself from that much, much easier.  Being a virtual slave is NO comparison to the other kind - I don't think anyone has a disagreement on that. 

 

Again, if you're arguing the semantics of slavery, you've already lost the argument.  Bundy made it quite clear he was talking about the US, and its history of literally enslaving blacks.  Anything else is a side issue, and if you can't even convince fellow conservatives, how do you think the average American would take trying to spin Bundy's words?  He wasn't talking about Slavic indentured servants, he was talking about the current state of blacks in America, compared to the days of US slavery. 

[SouthTexas]

I call it exactly what it is.

Murder.

The people in that trailer made the conscious choice to enter that trailer. THAT is the difference. The people who own the trailer cannot file an insurance claim to cover their losses (if any). No Court will rule in their favor.

The people in the cargo hold of the Zong were put in there against their will. All semblance of humanity was taken from them; they were (in the eyes of the Court) insurable cargo.

Those who eventually reached their destination, continued to be less than a human being, where the survivors of that 18-wheeler incident were taken to hospitals.
The owners of the Zong were compensated for their losses. According to your article, whoever is responsible for the deaths in that trailer may face the death penalty.

If you can't see the difference, I won't be able to help you see it.

I do not disagree with your description to tag it as murder, but we were talking about self imposed slavery and that is exactly what that is.  Some pay up front and some sell their soul and will pay for years.  The coyotes are paid up front and they chose to drop the trailer, take the money and run.  I don't know what else you would call that other than self imposed slavery.

Have to stop for a while, not feeling very good.

[musiclady]

There is no such thing as self-imposed slavery. The very idea of it flies at the face of the definition of the word.

You gave an anecdotal evidence to show how slavery was somehow benign, and I responded with a bit of history to show that there was nothing benign about it, all anecdotal evidence aside.

It may have already been said, but the subject of Bundy's remarks were regarding the slavery in the United States of those captured, chained, shipped from Africa, sold in the US, and OWNED by their masters, with NO possibility of escaping.

This is LITERAL slavery, as being discussed.

There is, as has been said, no equivalency to the situation blacks are in now, no matter how desperate, because they DO have the opportunity to remove themselves from their situation, even though that may be difficult.

Therefore "self-imposed" slavery is not the same as, nor 'better than' LITERAL slavery.

Thanks to a conversation with Niger Innes, Bundy now understands that.

Hopefully his supporters here will eventually figure it out as well.

[Luis Gonzalez]

It may have already been said, but the subject of Bundy's remarks were regarding the slavery in the United States of those captured, chained, shipped from Africa, sold in the US, and OWNED by their masters, with NO possibility of escaping.

This is LITERAL slavery, as being discussed.

There is, as has been said, no equivalency to the situation blacks are in now, no matter how desperate, because they DO have the opportunity to remove themselves from their situation, even though that may be difficult.

Therefore "self-imposed" slavery is not the same as, nor 'better than' LITERAL slavery.

Thanks to a conversation with Niger Innes, Bundy now understands that.

Hopefully his supporters here will eventually figure it out as well.

 

[alicewonders]

It may have already been said, but the subject of Bundy's remarks were regarding the slavery in the United States of those captured, chained, shipped from Africa, sold in the US, and OWNED by their masters, with NO possibility of escaping.

This is LITERAL slavery, as being discussed.

There is, as has been said, no equivalency to the situation blacks are in now, no matter how desperate, because they DO have the opportunity to remove themselves from their situation, even though that may be difficult.

Therefore "self-imposed" slavery is not the same as, nor 'better than' LITERAL slavery.

Thanks to a conversation with Niger Innes, Bundy now understands that.

Hopefully his supporters here will eventually figure it out as well.

For the last time, what you call "his supporters" are only trying to say that we understand what he said was wrong, but that given his age and other things - we don't give him a pass on his musings - but we don't call him a villain either.  We have compassion for what he was trying to convey and how he got himself caught up in this mess.  The man is not evil, that's all.  All of these pages of threads....... just because some of us refuse to call him evil...... just because some here have demanded it.  Almost like demanding that his head be brought to you on a silver tray. 

I'm not going to say another thing about it.   

[olde north church]

For the last time, what you call "his supporters" are only trying to say that we understand what he said was wrong, but that given his age and other things - we don't give him a pass on his musings - but we don't call him a villain either.  We have compassion for what he was trying to convey and how he got himself caught up in this mess.  The man is not evil, that's all.  All of these pages of threads....... just because some of us refuse to call him evil...... just because some here have demanded it.  Almost like demanding that his head be brought to you on a silver tray. 

I'm not going to say another thing about it.   

Quite like Trayvon Martin, whites are again forced to explain themselves.  A position the Left enjoys putting them in.  Always in the position of defending the "indefensible".
Racism is the briar patch or the tar baby.  My ancestors 6 generations back owned no slaves.  I owe no explanations.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Quite like Trayvon Martin, whites are again forced to explain themselves.  A position the Left enjoys putting them in.  Always in the position of defending the "indefensible".
Racism is the briar patch or the tar baby.  My ancestors 6 generations back owned no slaves.  I owe no explanations.

I don't have to defend myself. I didn't say it.

"Whites" don't have to defend themselves, he doesn't represent them.

Some people are defending him, and they will be painted with whatever brush he's painted with. 

[Bigun]

Quite like Trayvon Martin, whites are again forced to explain themselves.  A position the Left enjoys putting them in.  Always in the position of defending the "indefensible".
Racism is the briar patch or the tar baby.  My ancestors 6 generations back owned no slaves.  I owe no explanations.

Mine did! I never have and owe no explanations to anyone!

[olde north church]

Mine did! I never have and owe no explanations to anyone!

Bigun and Luis the conversation was changed.  Three Card Monte and leger de main, the hand is quicker than the eye and everybody is ready to string up the old white dinosaur.
You're both smart men, the world has moved millions of miles, yet here stand in the middle of the desert debating what will mean nothing in the course of time.
I'd rather talk fishin'.

[musiclady]

For the last time, what you call "his supporters" are only trying to say that we understand what he said was wrong, but that given his age and other things - we don't give him a pass on his musings - but we don't call him a villain either.  We have compassion for what he was trying to convey and how he got himself caught up in this mess.  The man is not evil, that's all.  All of these pages of threads....... just because some of us refuse to call him evil...... just because some here have demanded it.  Almost like demanding that his head be brought to you on a silver tray. 

I'm not going to say another thing about it.   

I'm going to assume that you're not intentionally misrepresenting what I said, but I am going to clarify for your sake, what you misunderstood.

I never said, nor implied that the man was a "villain" or that he was "evil."  Only that what he said was racist and wrong.

Two VERY different things.

Now HE realizes it, thanks to the wise counsel of Niger Innes.  (Who could do it better?)

HE has apparently understood how wrong he was.

And if you don't consider yourself a 'supporter,' then my words have nothing to do with you, and you should have let them go.