Author Topic: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again  (Read 1919 times)

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Online Once-Ler

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"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
       Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 5:35 AM - Sep 14, 2017

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 09:07:19 AM »
The reason why the goofball parade is continuing to gain traction is that mainstream republicans are seen as little more than enablers of an out-of-control fiscal snake-pit.  And to be sure, they seemed to roll over on debt ceilings and continuing resolutions, all of which should have put them in a fair bargaining position.  Of course it's not all the fault of the GOP.  The House continues to send bills to the Senate, but Reid routinely shoves them into the shredder before the ink dries. 

Primary challenges are usually a good thing; issues raised and debated, personalities brought out.  But cross-party voting can propel an incompetent featherbrain into the general election as we saw in 2010.

And far more in the GOP are disenchanted with the direction of the Country and of their party than Democrats, thus much more in the hunt for some new blood.  Serious talk of going 3d party isn't helping.  And the simple solutions being touted to some of the most complex issues including taxes, spending, immigration and of course health care can be very popular, giving some candidates a larger podium than they might have the competency for.

On the bright side, it might make for some interesting threads.  I recall some spirited discussions here on candidates like Hayworth, Angle, O'Donnell, and of course Palin.  I sense it won't be an echo-chamber here in the coming months.  :pondering:
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Online Once-Ler

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 11:21:12 PM »
On the bright side, it might make for some interesting threads.  I recall some spirited discussions here on candidates like Hayworth, Angle, O'Donnell, and of course Palin.  I sense it won't be an echo-chamber here in the coming months.  :pondering:
Pretty much agree with all you wrote, and the entertainment value of the upcoming primaries may be the only value to find.
"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
       Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 5:35 AM - Sep 14, 2017

Offline speekinout

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 11:51:24 PM »
One big problem is that too many people don't realize how impotent the minority party is. Unless a party has 2 of the three law making positions (House, Senate, and Presidency) they don't have power to do anything. Sometimes they can say no and have that stick, and other times they may get a concession or two. But that's all they can do.
And it does no good for us in the electorate to whine about how little they've done, when we haven't done the most important thing which is to give them majority positions.
If we won't use our power, they won't have any.

Online Once-Ler

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 09:19:05 AM »
One big problem is that too many people don't realize how impotent the minority party is. Unless a party has 2 of the three law making positions (House, Senate, and Presidency) they don't have power to do anything. Sometimes they can say no and have that stick, and other times they may get a concession or two. But that's all they can do.
And it does no good for us in the electorate to whine about how little they've done, when we haven't done the most important thing which is to give them majority positions.
If we won't use our power, they won't have any.
Very true.  In many ways the House is the least effective branch to hold.  The Senate confirms nominees, and the Prez issues executive orders.  We must take the Senate in Nov.
"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
       Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 5:35 AM - Sep 14, 2017

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2014, 10:07:48 AM »
One big problem is that too many people don't realize how impotent the minority party is. Unless a party has 2 of the three law making positions (House, Senate, and Presidency) they don't have power to do anything. Sometimes they can say no and have that stick, and other times they may get a concession or two. But that's all they can do.
And it does no good for us in the electorate to whine about how little they've done, when we haven't done the most important thing which is to give them majority positions.
If we won't use our power, they won't have any.
Point taken, but there have been times when the party has refused to use the power they do have... such as the authority they and they alone have as ruling party of the House to write the budget.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 10:12:25 AM »
Very true.  In many ways the House is the least effective branch to hold.  The Senate confirms nominees, and the Prez issues executive orders.  We must take the Senate in Nov.

You're right. Taking the Senate is an absolute must.  Reid has been running interference for Obama for far too long.  The power of a majority leader to schedule votes is greater than many people realize.  With the GOP running the Senate, Obama might veto bills, but that would be on him to defend.  Today, Reid refuses to take up a bill sent by the House, and Obama can blame the Republicans for doing nothing.
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Offline massadvj

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 10:17:18 AM »
We hold primaries for a reason.  If moderates can't stand up to the party faithful and make their case then they deserve to lose.  I strongly object to those who would like to just allow the GOPe to anoint their nominees and be done with it.  Usually, the reason moderates are so fearful of "Tea Partiers" is that their own positions are so compromised as to be indefensible. 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 11:14:05 AM »
We hold primaries for a reason.  If moderates can't stand up to the party faithful and make their case then they deserve to lose.  I strongly object to those who would like to just allow the GOPe to anoint their nominees and be done with it.  Usually, the reason moderates are so fearful of "Tea Partiers" is that their own positions are so compromised as to be indefensible.

I'm all for primaries that bring out all sides.  With respect to indefensible positions though, we can look at a number of "tea-Partiers" and see exactly that.  With some of them, it's all rhetoric and that degenerates into absurd "paint-yourself-into-a-corner" positions.  Establishing one's positions on issues is essential; drawing lines in the sand (signing pledges)can be disastrous for that politician.  Willingness to negotiate and compromise while maintaining one's principles is essential for success in politics.  Reagan, with his faults (and he had them) could successfully do that.  Romney would have.  Many others yesterday and today can't.

But without winning, as in this Fall, all the principles and lines in the sand are worthless.
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Offline EC

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 01:21:35 PM »
But without winning, as in this Fall, all the principles and lines in the sand are worthless.

Spot on. Taking the Senate and keeping the House is the only thing we should be concentrating on right now.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2014, 05:37:35 PM »
Point taken, but there have been times when the party has refused to use the power they do have... such as the authority they and they alone have as ruling party of the House to write the budget.

The House has passed a budget every year. Harry Reid refuses to bring it to a vote in the Senate. The House has no authority to force him to do it.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2014, 09:55:27 PM »
The House has passed a budget every year. Harry Reid refuses to bring it to a vote in the Senate. The House has no authority to force him to do it.
Then that is the Senate's problem. The House can, as I discussed once before, use censure to reprimand those members of the Senate (theoretically they can censure anyone) who refuse to cooperate.

While I agree, there is only so much a party can do with one house of Congress (hence why elections are so important), there are things they can do.
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Offline speekinout

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2014, 10:19:34 PM »
Then that is the Senate's problem. The House can, as I discussed once before, use censure to reprimand those members of the Senate (theoretically they can censure anyone) who refuse to cooperate.

While I agree, there is only so much a party can do with one house of Congress (hence why elections are so important), there are things they can do.

Of course it's the Senate's problem. But the Senate is majority dim. There's nothing the GOP can do to get them to act. Waving their arms and complaining - whether you call it censure or just whining - doesn't get anything done. With this admin., it's possible that nothing other that a veto proof GOP majority in both Houses is enough to accomplish anything.

I agree that elections are important, and electing as many GOP members of Congress as we can is very important this year.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2014, 10:23:57 PM »
We hold primaries for a reason.  If moderates can't stand up to the party faithful and make their case then they deserve to lose.  I strongly object to those who would like to just allow the GOPe to anoint their nominees and be done with it.  Usually, the reason moderates are so fearful of "Tea Partiers" is that their own positions are so compromised as to be indefensible.

 :amen: Victor!

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"And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, and to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering.

Then begins, indeed, the bellum omnium in omnia, which some philosophers observing to be so general in this world, have mistaken it for the natural, instead of the abusive state of man.

And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression."


 Thomas Jefferson, letter to Sam Kercheval about reform of the Virginia Constitution, July 12, 1816; "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson," Definitive Edition, Albert Ellery Bergh, Editor, The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association (1905) Vol. XV, p. 40

« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 10:28:55 PM by Bigun »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2014, 10:27:55 PM »
Then that is the Senate's problem. The House can, as I discussed once before, use censure to reprimand those members of the Senate (theoretically they can censure anyone) who refuse to cooperate.

While I agree, there is only so much a party can do with one house of Congress (hence why elections are so important), there are things they can do.
The US House of Representatives voting to censure a Senator? Simply never heard of such a thing.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2014, 12:37:53 AM »
I put my Matt Bevin yard sign out in the yard the other day - I sent him $20 for it!

Woo-Hoo!

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2014, 01:23:58 AM »
The reason why the goofball parade is continuing to gain traction is that mainstream republicans are seen as little more than enablers of an out-of-control fiscal snake-pit.  And to be sure, they seemed to roll over on debt ceilings and continuing resolutions, all of which should have put them in a fair bargaining position.  Of course it's not all the fault of the GOP.  The House continues to send bills to the Senate, but Reid routinely shoves them into the shredder before the ink dries. 

Primary challenges are usually a good thing; issues raised and debated, personalities brought out.  But cross-party voting can propel an incompetent featherbrain into the general election as we saw in 2010.

And far more in the GOP are disenchanted with the direction of the Country and of their party than Democrats, thus much more in the hunt for some new blood.  Serious talk of going 3d party isn't helping.  And the simple solutions being touted to some of the most complex issues including taxes, spending, immigration and of course health care can be very popular, giving some candidates a larger podium than they might have the competency for.

On the bright side, it might make for some interesting threads.  I recall some spirited discussions here on candidates like Hayworth, Angle, O'Donnell, and of course Palin.  I sense it won't be an echo-chamber here in the coming months.  :pondering:

I keep thinking back to this quote by President Reagan:

"Government is not a solution to our problem government is the problem."

There is so much undeniable truth in that statement. No matter how many times I read that, I know that Reagan was absolutely right.

Then comes time to elect new public servants, and we discuss the merits of one candidate over the other.

This guy over that guy.

This Party over that Party.

Then it hits me.

This guy, that guy.

This Party, that Party.

They're all "government".

They are the problem, not the solution to the problem.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 01:24:18 AM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2014, 01:27:53 AM »
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 01:28:16 AM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2014, 08:32:01 AM »
I keep thinking back to this quote by President Reagan:

"Government is not a solution to our problem government is the problem."

There is so much undeniable truth in that statement. No matter how many times I read that, I know that Reagan was absolutely right.

Then comes time to elect new public servants, and we discuss the merits of one candidate over the other.

This guy over that guy.

This Party over that Party.

Then it hits me.

This guy, that guy.

This Party, that Party.

They're all "government".

They are the problem, not the solution to the problem.

Indeed, but in reality none of us wants the alternative to government. 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2014, 08:39:25 AM »
Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again

We are the Party of "everything that's old is better".

How do we campaign against the very definition of who we claim to be?

I recall Luis, when you asked the question on another site a few years ago. "What is a conservative"?  You got a few varied responses, which I'm not sure answered the challenge, but I will say it's not always the loudest self-proclaimed "true conservative". 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2014, 01:37:06 PM »
I recall Luis, when you asked the question on another site a few years ago. "What is a conservative"?  You got a few varied responses, which I'm not sure answered the challenge, but I will say it's not always the loudest self-proclaimed "true conservative".

In asking that question, I also predicted that the thread would descend into an out and out brawl within 20 posts.

It took even less time than that.

It was after that thread that I developed what I consider to be the answer to the question posted:


« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 01:37:26 PM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2014, 01:45:40 PM »
Indeed, but in reality none of us wants the alternative to government.

I just want an alternative to THIS government.

The problem today is the conflicting nature of the two existing controlling bases of political ideology.

The left spends all its time and energy trying to force people into doing things they don't want to do, while the right spends its time trying to stop people from doing things they want to do.

Both sides see people like me, the "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" types as radicals. I am a leftist in right-wing blogs, and a right wing nutjob in left wing ones. Contrarian by nature because I don't want to do things that I don't want to do, and want to do the things that I want to do, so long as I neither pick pockets or break legs.

Offline evadR²

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2014, 02:11:36 PM »
"...I just want an alternative to THIS government."

hear, hear!

I don't see us making great strides in 2014 until someone addresses the matter of FRAUD.

And I'm not talking just about the old home garden variety "I found these votes in the trunk of my car" type of fraud.  I'm talking about the type when dims support a faux libertarian to run and take away 5% of the votes which is just enough for our guy to lose. Witness the Virginia governor's race.
Any close race automatically goes to the dim.

What are we going to do about that? Are any of our leaders even going to talk about it?
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2014, 02:16:03 PM »
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 02:17:12 PM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline EC

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Re: Winning the GOP Senate Races, Everything Old CANNOT Be New Again
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2014, 02:25:59 PM »
When I say "this government", I include both parties.

I no longer see this as being a Republican vs Democrat thing. I see it as  people vs government thing.

No one has clean hands in the mess that this nation finds itself in right now.

Nailed it. Governing should not be a profession.
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