Author Topic: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks  (Read 4481 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,287
Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« on: April 24, 2014, 06:53:52 PM »


Quote
Watch Bundy explain how we need to keep things from going backwards for blacks, and how the Federal government has created a neo-slave class via entitlement dependency that is so bad it is arguably worse than plantation slavery was.

It is 100% clear that Cliven Bundy is not saying that blacks should be slaves picking cotton, but that the Federal government has created conditions for them so terrible, that their current situation may actually be worse. (If you are person of low intelligence, the fact that that is his point might be too hard for you to understand.)

And he’s not blaming blacks for the issues of abortions, and crime and broken families, he’s blaming the Feds.


http://patdollard.com/2014/04/shock-hoax-exposed-full-clip-of-cliven-bundys-non-racist-pro-black-anti-government-remarks-vs-media-matters-deceptively-edited-hoax-version-see-that-cliven-bundy-is-actually-an-advocat/




Offline massadvj

  • Editorial Advisor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,020
    • Auktion Online
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 07:10:11 PM »
It's a stupid comparison.  Blacks are not worse off today than they were as slaves.  Sheesh.  Most black people live middle class lives.  They have families and jobs, and they are productive citizens.  Yes, a higher proportion of African-Americans get public assistance than do Anglos, but it is not a majority by any means.

Bundy's statement is just bizarre.  I think he's just an old relic who still believes the "Gone With the Wind" and "Birth of a Nation" myth.  Whether he's just a pathetic dinosaur or not, he needs to be thrown under the bus in no uncertain terms.
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,480
  • ^^ Actual picture of me.
    • Fullervision
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 07:13:53 PM »
Whether he's just a pathetic dinosaur or not, he needs to be thrown under the bus in no uncertain terms.
Regardless of whether he's just a pathetic dinosaur or not, "throwing him under the bus" hands Harry Reid the victory. I made a Todd Akin comparison in another thread. This is the same strategy Reid used to hold onto the Senate and keep his buddy Obama in the Presidency two years ago. The difference is, this isn't an election.
STILL a proud supporter of the Free Conservative Resistance

"Just because people in positions of authority are stupid, it doesn’t mean you have to go along with it." —Arlo Guthrie

Offline AbaraXas

  • Just a nobody
  • Social Media Advisor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,289
  • Just a nobody
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 07:36:10 PM »
He is a grump old rancher who probably has many prejudices of his generation HOWEVER, it seems Media Matters did chop up his video to completely turn on its head what he said- he was accusing the Dems of taking them back to that era, not that they were 'better off' as though they should go to it.
Never delude yourself into thinking you're "influencing" or making a difference on the internet. It is an ephemeral pleasure.

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 14,786
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 10:49:23 PM »
It's a stupid comparison.  Blacks are not worse off today than they were as slaves.  Sheesh.  Most black people live middle class lives.  They have families and jobs, and they are productive citizens.  Yes, a higher proportion of African-Americans get public assistance than do Anglos, but it is not a majority by any means.

Bundy's statement is just bizarre.  I think he's just an old relic who still believes the "Gone With the Wind" and "Birth of a Nation" myth.  Whether he's just a pathetic dinosaur or not, he needs to be thrown under the bus in no uncertain terms.

Bizarre is the right word for what he said.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,287
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 10:57:33 PM »
Even so Mr. Bundy's statement is grotesquely false.  The conditions many Blacks live in, sometimes deplorable conditions, that have been facilitated by the federal government, are incomparably better than the conditions in which almost all slaves lived in.  Or have I missed the memo saying that it's now legal for the federal government to whip Blacks who live on welfare to within an inch of their lives?

As a student (yes, college) of Black History and Slavery (word derived from Slavic), I'd say that you have a very limited knowledge of the true history.

The first, forgotten and never freed slaves were the White Irish.

The Black slave was owned mostly by the Mulatto Blacks and upon his release (the slave) was given land, cattle and other reparations that were not afforded the White Irish .. or their children!

Also, one of the very first .. and The first to own black slaves in Virginia was a black man himself, Anthony Johnson.

Johnson was also responsible for the court case in which Slavery was deemed Legal in this country!
(He fought and won the right to legalized slavery)

How's that for a short history on slavery? :beer:

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 14,786
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 11:02:33 PM »
As a student (yes, college) of Black History and Slavery (word derived from Slavic), I'd say that you have a very limited knowledge of the true history.

The first, forgotten and never freed slaves were the White Irish.

The Black slave was owned mostly by the Mulatto Blacks and upon his release (the slave) was given land, cattle and other reparations that were not afforded the White Irish .. or their children!

Also, one of the very first .. and The first to own black slaves in Virginia was a black man himself, Anthony Johnson.

Johnson was also responsible for the court case in which Slavery was deemed Legal in this country!
(He fought and won the right to legalized slavery)

How's that for a short history on slavery? :beer:

Good history lesson.

Two questions............ how many of those Irish slaves' families were still enslaved 100 years later?  And how many black slave owners were there at the time of the Civil War?
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,287
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 11:06:53 PM »
We need a forum topic titled The Fundamentals of Reading and Comprehension!

Get off of the White Guilt wagon and put on some Big Boy pants.

Some whites will forever be losers in the 'Gotcha Game'!

Nothing Bundy said was offensive or untrue .. none!

How many times does a black man (me for instance) have to come to the aid of someone ALL of you should be defending?

The man is clearly from another era and is not running for anything and is clearly not up on the rules of Political Correctness!

Please, give it a break.

You keep the Al Sharptons of the world in business longer than most of us 'colored' folks want them to be!  :chairbang:

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 14,786
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 11:09:14 PM »
Disagreeing with Mr. Bundy does not equal any form of "white guilt" nor immaturity.

We have different opinions here, Mr. Close, and that's supposed to be alright.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,287
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 11:12:32 PM »
Good history lesson.

Two questions............ how many of those Irish slaves' families were still enslaved 100 years later?  And how many black slave owners were there at the time of the Civil War?


I didn't mean for this to turn into a Slave History class but you can ..

Start Here: http://slaverebellion.org/index.php?page=the-black-slave-owners

Or maybe start here: http://www.saveyourheritage.com/white_slavery.htm

Offline mrclose

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,287
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 11:14:49 PM »
Disagreeing with Mr. Bundy does not equal any form of "white guilt" nor immaturity.

We have different opinions here, Mr. Close, and that's supposed to be alright.

But all the disagreements tend to center around Non Politically Correct words .. which Political Correctness was invented by White folks!?


Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 14,786
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 11:31:56 PM »
But all the disagreements tend to center around Non Politically Correct words .. which Political Correctness was invented by White folks!?

Yes.  By liberal white racists.

Of which there are none on this board.

Just conservatives with different opinions.  Right??

My opinion is that we shouldn't agree with words that are ignorant and thoughtless (Bundy's), and defend those who say them (Bundy), just because we know that the left will abuse and misconstrue our words and thoughts.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,822
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 11:44:27 PM »
We need a forum topic titled The Fundamentals of Reading and Comprehension!

Get off of the White Guilt wagon and put on some Big Boy pants.

Some whites will forever be losers in the 'Gotcha Game'!

Nothing Bundy said was offensive or untrue .. none!

How many times does a black man (me for instance) have to come to the aid of someone ALL of you should be defending?

The man is clearly from another era and is not running for anything and is clearly not up on the rules of Political Correctness!

Please, give it a break.

You keep the Al Sharptons of the world in business longer than most of us 'colored' folks want them to be!  :chairbang:

I'm with you! There are many ways to say the same thing, and as many ways to interpret what someone says. Some people are more fluent than others, but that doesn't mean they don't have the same things or feelings on the inside. The better writers have the ability to put our thoughts into their pens. Thomas Sowell comes to mind. 

Too many are holding Mr. Bundy to higher standards that he isn't. By that, I mean he's not a Harvard or Yale scholar, but a simple man tending to his ranch, though he is not a simpleton. I doubt he has a racist bone in his body, though many are getting off reading their own confirmation bias into his statements. This is, to me, a form of discrimination against a man who isn't prolific with his words, and college educated people are raking him over the coals for his simplicity.

The story is about the federal government and its control over land, the states, and the individual. The distraction is distasteful because of the perverse delight in ripping a man apart for what he never meant in the first place.

Online alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12,872
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 12:01:13 AM »
We need a forum topic titled The Fundamentals of Reading and Comprehension!

Get off of the White Guilt wagon and put on some Big Boy pants.

Some whites will forever be losers in the 'Gotcha Game'!

Nothing Bundy said was offensive or untrue .. none!

How many times does a black man (me for instance) have to come to the aid of someone ALL of you should be defending?

The man is clearly from another era and is not running for anything and is clearly not up on the rules of Political Correctness!

Please, give it a break.

You keep the Al Sharptons of the world in business longer than most of us 'colored' folks want them to be!  :chairbang:

I could not agree with you more, mrclose.   :beer:

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Online alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 12,872
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 12:05:19 AM »
I'm with you! There are many ways to say the same thing, and as many ways to interpret what someone says. Some people are more fluent than others, but that doesn't mean they don't have the same things or feelings on the inside. The better writers have the ability to put our thoughts into their pens. Thomas Sowell comes to mind. 

Too many are holding Mr. Bundy to higher standards that he isn't. By that, I mean he's not a Harvard or Yale scholar, but a simple man tending to his ranch, though he is not a simpleton. I doubt he has a racist bone in his body, though many are getting off reading their own confirmation bias into his statements. This is, to me, a form of discrimination against a man who isn't prolific with his words, and college educated people are raking him over the coals for his simplicity.

The story is about the federal government and its control over land, the states, and the individual. The distraction is distasteful because of the perverse delight in ripping a man apart for what he never meant in the first place.

Thank you happy, you have stated it very articulately!   :beer: 
Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Carling

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,245
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 12:07:20 AM »
So, Pat Dollard says Bundy's words were edited, and then tries to defend the meaning of the words that were supposedly edited.

Quote
It is 100% clear that Cliven Bundy is not saying that blacks should be slaves picking cotton, but that the Federal government has created conditions for them so terrible, that their current situation may actually be worse. (If you are person of low intelligence, the fact that that is his point might be too hard for you to understand.)

So, "blacks" have it worse now than when they were bought and sold as animals?

 :chairbang:
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 12:09:47 AM by Carling »
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
-----------------------------------------------

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,823
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 12:22:52 AM »

It's a stupid comparison.  Blacks are not worse off today than they were as slaves.  Sheesh.  Most black people live middle class lives.  They have families and jobs, and they are productive citizens.  Yes, a higher proportion of African-Americans get public assistance than do Anglos, but it is not a majority by any means.


Says who?   Show me the Carfax!

They take up 80% of the prison cells, commit more than 10X more murders than whites and virtually their entire base are dependent on the government.  The black 2 parent family is virtually non-existent.

Quote

Bundy's statement is just bizarre.  I think he's just an old relic who still believes the "Gone With the Wind" and "Birth of a Nation" myth.  Whether he's just a pathetic dinosaur or not, he needs to be thrown under the bus in no uncertain terms.


Perhaps....but I refuse to abandon context in passing judgment.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"If you want to change the world, go home and love your family".    ...Mother Teresa

"It's not the mountain before you, but the pebble in your shoe"      ....or something like that

Offline olde north church

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,136
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2014, 05:18:24 AM »
As a student (yes, college) of Black History and Slavery (word derived from Slavic), I'd say that you have a very limited knowledge of the true history.

The first, forgotten and never freed slaves were the White Irish.

The Black slave was owned mostly by the Mulatto Blacks and upon his release (the slave) was given land, cattle and other reparations that were not afforded the White Irish .. or their children!

Also, one of the very first .. and The first to own black slaves in Virginia was a black man himself, Anthony Johnson.

Johnson was also responsible for the court case in which Slavery was deemed Legal in this country!
(He fought and won the right to legalized slavery)

How's that for a short history on slavery? :beer:

unbe-freakin'-leevable  :shrug:
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline massadvj

  • Editorial Advisor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,020
    • Auktion Online
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2014, 07:01:59 AM »
Says who?   Show me the Carfax!


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html

Median household income for African-Americans was $32.2K in 2011. 
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,439
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2014, 10:41:01 AM »


http://patdollard.com/2014/04/shock-hoax-exposed-full-clip-of-cliven-bundys-non-racist-pro-black-anti-government-remarks-vs-media-matters-deceptively-edited-hoax-version-see-that-cliven-bundy-is-actually-an-advocat/


After reading yet another explanation of what I heard Mr. Bundy clearly say, the idea that "the Negro" would be better off as a slave than in their current conditions remains ( at best) an absurd, ignorant and insensitive statement, and ( at worst) offensively racist.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline SouthTexas

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,667
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2014, 11:23:41 AM »
Whether he's just a pathetic dinosaur or not, he needs to be thrown under the bus in no uncertain terms.

Really?  I thought that was a democrat tactic.  No longer of any use, toss them aside as if rubbish.  Didn't realize it had come into prominent use among conservatives as well.

The illusions the left has created for slavery is absurd.  Common sense should blow apart some of this BS but it seems that's is short supply when it comes to this topic also.  You would not run your workers into the ground and beat them to an inch of their lives.  Just what purpose would that serve?  You don't run your tractor out of oil do you?

Not saying that abuse did not happen, not by a long shot, but one family story tells of Mother's Grandmother standing on the porch with a double barrell shotgun and backing the clan off. 

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,439
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2014, 01:22:43 PM »
Really?  I thought that was a democrat tactic.  No longer of any use, toss them aside as if rubbish.  Didn't realize it had come into prominent use among conservatives as well.

The illusions the left has created for slavery is absurd.  Common sense should blow apart some of this BS but it seems that's is short supply when it comes to this topic also.  You would not run your workers into the ground and beat them to an inch of their lives.  Just what purpose would that serve?  You don't run your tractor out of oil do you?

Not saying that abuse did not happen, not by a long shot, but one family story tells of Mother's Grandmother standing on the porch with a double barrell shotgun and backing the clan off.

I'll see your anecdotal and raise you one Zong massacre.

The Zong was a Liverpool-based slave ship who, as a result of navigational mistakes by the crew, was in danger of running out of drinking water before it reached its destination. In order for that not to happen, and for the 17-man crew not to suffer dehydration, 142 slaves, men, women and children were thrown overboard somewhere between Tobago and Jamaica.

The owners of the Zong had insured their "cargo", but that insurance would not pay for losses due to "natural causes" (such as starvation, or disease, or dying as a result of a beating), but if some of the "cargo" had to be jettisoned, then the claim would fall under the "general average" principle, which had all interested parties sharing in losses "from a voluntary sacrifice of part of the ship or cargo to save the whole in an emergency."

The British courts found that (in some cases) the deliberate killing of slaves was legal, and that the insurers were to pay the claims for the lost "cargo".

In the aftermath of a retrial that saw the earlier findings upheld, the deliberate killings found to be legal, and the insurance claims viable, the Earl of Mansfield remarked that the jury "had no doubt (though it shocks one very much) that the Case of Slaves was the same as if Horses had been thrown over board."
   
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,565
  • Common sense results oriented conservatism
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2014, 02:21:13 PM »
All around the world, to greater and lesser  extents, some people are subsidized by various government provided safety net programs. That is the individual, subsistence level of participation.

On the other end of the scale, many comfortable farmers and ranchers, do very nicely on subsidies. Paid to not grow, price supports, grazing on publicly owned lands, etc.

Grazing one's herd on land they do not own (and have never owned), is certainly a subsidy.

So if "benefitting" from government subsidies makes one a slave, inner city blacks and Bundy are both willing slaves.

Merely attaching to different teats, of Big Mama Government.

Bundy is therefore not an attractive spokesman against subsidies, or the lifestyle of subsidy dependent people.

Refusing to pay grazing fees, further erodes Bundy's standing to criticize other dependents.

"Conservatism" has failed to reach beyond the usual choir, in any preaching on this topic. Won't gain voters in my opinion.


#NeverHillary

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,731
  • Conspiracy engineer. Low rates.
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2014, 02:27:23 PM »
"Conservatism" has failed to reach beyond the usual choir, in any preaching on this topic. Won't gain voters in my opinion.

To paraphrase probably the finest spinmeister since Machiavelli: It's all in the presentation.

Skip the race stuff. Go back to 200 plus heavily armed people on the land to enforce this. People in the cities - especially in the inner cities and the ghettos - have a distrust of cops. Use that aspect.
The fastest way to a man's heart? Inch to the right of the breastbone, between the fourth and fifth rib.

Every time I start to feel boring, I remember there is a monthly magazine devoted to elevators.

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,565
  • Common sense results oriented conservatism
Re: Hoax Exposed: NYT Edits Bundy Remarks
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2014, 02:33:11 PM »
To paraphrase probably the finest spinmeister since Machiavelli: It's all in the presentation.

Skip the race stuff. Go back to 200 plus heavily armed people on the land to enforce this. People in the cities - especially in the inner cities and the ghettos - have a distrust of cops. Use that aspect.
Those inner city dependents will readily buy the explanation that the good government is watching out for them, by dealing with white racist ranchers out west, etc.

Thirsty Kool-Aid drinkers, IOW. The price they pay for their government dependency, is buying into the crap their leaders spew for their consumption. 90% =+ democrat voters, and holding.
#NeverHillary


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf