Author Topic: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments  (Read 18653 times)

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Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2014, 01:12:23 am »
Thanks for posting this, happy. I am new to this story - I took my eyes and ears off the "news" for just a few hours and returned to find this story has more coverage than flight 370!
It's clear that Bundy isn't an articulate spokesman, and he's very politically naive. But what he says, if you listen to these quotes you've posted, is pretty much what a lot of conservatives have been saying for years. Welfare programs have made inner city blacks dependent on the gov't. And Planned Parenthood was started by Margaret Sanger, a known racist. Almost half of black babies are aborted. And the babies that survive are often trapped in poor schools where they don't get an education and wind up unemployed, unemployable, and likely to be involved in criminal activities. The girls too often become single mothers and the boys too often wind up in jail.

So he didn't phrase it well, but what did he say that conservatives object to?

It's not what he said, but how the Libtards doctored his comments and then started painting him as a "racist", per SOP.

That's enough to get the "play-along-to-get-along squishes" to start feeding on someone. Nevermind that some in the GOP would have learned that when the Media reports something terrible that may possibly reflect poorly on "conservatives", it's usually bullsh*t in the first place.

Remember their philosophy: "The Ends Justify The Means".
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2014, 01:15:12 am »
Mr. Bundy is not being subjected to any tyranny.  The BLM was certainly overzealous in its efforts to enforce the lawful court orders it had to remove Mr. Bundy's trespassing cattle from federal land.  Overzealousness is not tyranny.  Sheriffs and marshals routinely use force to evict people who refuse to comply with court orders.  Further, in many states, an evicted tenant's belongings can simply be dumped on the curb and the tenant cannot do anything if the property is damaged or stolen.

I would strongly suggest that you delve into the motivation for the BLM to arrive on scene with SWAT Teams and snipers, my friend. Take a good look at the actions of Harry Reid and his son along with the Chinese Government at the same time.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2014, 01:16:56 am »
Then, with all due respect, you need better glasses.  The land from which BLM wanted to evict Mr. Bundy's cattle was, and is, indisputably the sole property of the federal government and has been such ever since Mexico ceded the property to the US after the Mexican-American war.
Oh. Okay, then! My bad!

BLM should feel free to let loose the dogs of war, then! Hell....the guy's a racist, anyway.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2014, 01:33:40 am »
Then, with all due respect, you need better glasses.  The land from which BLM wanted to evict Mr. Bundy's cattle was, and is, indisputably the sole property of the federal government and has been such ever since Mexico ceded the property to the US after the Mexican-American war.

And so was every square inch of every state formed out of land unquestionably purchased by the federal government in the Louisiana purchase! ALL of that land was given to the states when they became states. Why is Nevada and all the other Western states being treated differently?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2014, 01:50:19 am »
With all due respect, an African-American on today's progressive plantation is shackled only by his own mind.  He can leave if he so chooses.  African-American slaves had no such right.  An African-American slave was shackled with bonds of steel and threats of death.  If a slave left his master's plantation without permission, he could be hunted down and dragged back.  Under the Supreme Court's ruling in the Dred Scott case, an enslaved person was almost a non-entity:  they were not considered citizens of a state, even if they were emancipated.

Not only is Mr. Bundy's statement flagrantly wrong, it also gainsays everything Republicans and conservatives have said about racism.  If Mr. Bundy's statement were correct, then Blacks are still subjugated by racism and therefore affirmative action and anti-discrimination programs would be justified.

Mr. Bundy is not a hero.  Any conservative or Republican who treats him as such does incalculable damage.

The shackles of the mind can be just as powerful as REAL shackles.  How many blacks still think they are oppressed - in spite of the fact that we have elected a black president?  The Al Sharptons of the world have to keep them thinking that, for their own greedy purposes.  How many wives stay with an abusive spouse because they don't think they can make it on their own?  They are virtual slaves too.  Mr. Bundy did not say that he thought slavery was a GOOD thing - he mused that perhaps todays blacks were victims of a different kind of slavery - a slavery of the mind.  They may not be beaten if they try to escape - but they will be pilloried, mocked and ostracized publicly all the same - and that can be a powerful deterrent to someone with low self-esteem who has been told their whole life they are "oppressed".

Lastly, never forget the words of a very wise and absolutely non-bigoted powerful white man:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."    

"They’re going to put y’all back in chains.”

Nope.  No plantation there!  No-sir-ee.   :whistle:

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2014, 01:52:21 am »
It was very nice of the federal government to yield the entire Louisiana Purchase to the states formed from that territory.  But nice does not make it mandatory.  There is nothing in the Constitution or common sense that obligates the federal government to relinquish title over territory ceded to it by a foreign government.  The why of it probably makes for some fascinating history, but it does not provide Mr. Bundy with even the slenderest of reeds on which to build his sand castle legal theories.

Except for the fact that fed gov is supposed to treat all states equally. Some states should not be more equal than others in this country!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2014, 01:57:37 am »
This is what real slavery looks like:




That you would even countenance equating "virtual slavery" with that is disturbing.

There was some of that no doubt but to say that EVERY slave owner engaged in such is an outright untruth! They did not! Most people won't go out and buy a new BMW only to take it home and beat the hell out of it with a sledgehammer!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2014, 02:01:56 am »
Really?  Do tell.  But first, please tell me you aren't going to trot out the thoroughly false "Equal Footing" nonsense.

I don't need to "trot out" anything as there has been an ongoing "argument" in the courts over it for about 30 years now! Even has a name! They call it the Sagebrush rebellion but I personally think that is a misnomer as well.

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2014, 02:02:03 am »
That you would even countenance equating "virtual slavery" with that is disturbing.

Thank you for posting that photo, Loki.

While I have been silent on BLM/Bundy issue (reading both sides and learning from both sides, but without enough legal knowledge myself to be sure which is right), I am incensed that voluntary shackles are in any way being compared to the vile, ugly reality of slavery.

It doesn't matter how much the left abuses the subject and falsely accuses, slavery.......REAL slavery was and is more horrible that we can imagine (there's still plenty of it going on today all over the world).

Bundy was not merely inarticulate, and IMO, defending his words and saying that it's what we all think, is extremely disturbing, and a denial of one of the greatest evils in the history of this great Republic.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2014, 02:05:11 am »
There was some of that no doubt but to say that EVERY slave owner engaged in such is an outright untruth! They did not! Most people won't go out and buy a new BMW only to take it home and beat the hell out of it with a sledgehammer!

It doesn't matter if every slave owner was brutal, Bigun.  They OWNED other human beings, and treated them as property.

And they didn't stop their brutal neighbors from using a sledgehammer on their "BMW's".

SLAVERY WAS and IS EVIL!

(WHY does this need to be said???)
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2014, 02:05:58 am »
And not every Jew was sent straight to the gas chambers.  After all, most Nazis wouldn't go out and spend the resources to ship millions of people thousands of miles just to gas them instead of getting some useful labor out of them.

Does that excuse the Holocaust?

Of course not! Intentional mischaracterizations of anything thing are wrong in my book!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2014, 02:08:34 am »
It doesn't matter if every slave owner was brutal, Bigun.  They OWNED other human beings, and treated them as property.

And they didn't stop their brutal neighbors from using a sledgehammer on their "BMW's".

SLAVERY WAS and IS EVIL!

(WHY does this need to be said???)

Unfortunately it was also LEGAL!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline speekinout

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2014, 02:11:21 am »
That being "trapped" in welfare is equivalent to being owned, whipped, forced to work at will, by another human being.

That's an oversimplification using terms that benefit the liberal story. Do you think the inner city blacks have freedom and opportunity? Do they have the dignity that goes with having a job and a family and being responsible for both? You put the wow "trapped" in quotes, so that must mean you think it's their choice to live that way?

So, slavery is bad, so anything else is good?

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2014, 02:14:06 am »
Unfortunately it was also LEGAL!

Yes.  And a perfect example of the utter depravity of man.

There is no defending it, nor rightful claim that it was no worse than the welfare state.

The fact of the matter is that there are blacks like Ben Carson and Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas.  The condition blacks are in in America now cannot, in any rational way, be compared to the wretched, evil condition of slavery.

And frankly, I am still appalled that anyone is doing it here on this forum.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2014, 02:15:22 am »
Then why does the relatively humane way that a few slave owners treated the human beings whose souls they owned - their two-legged BMWs - excuse the reality of slavery?

To claim the right to own another human being is to claim the right to own his soul.  That is wrong.  In my book it is one of the greatest of sins.  And no amount of decent material conditions can lessen the evil inherent in claiming the right to own someone's soul.

Then why does the relatively humane way that a few most slave owners treated the human beings whose souls they owned - their two-legged BMWs - excuse the reality of slavery?

With that correction I agree with you but the FACT is that slavery was legal and engaged in by both whites , blacks, and browns. It is a historical fact that we cannot change no matter how we try!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline speekinout

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2014, 02:16:32 am »
It's not what he said, but how the Libtards doctored his comments and then started painting him as a "racist", per SOP.

That's enough to get the "play-along-to-get-along squishes" to start feeding on someone. Nevermind that some in the GOP would have learned that when the Media reports something terrible that may possibly reflect poorly on "conservatives", it's usually bullsh*t in the first place.

Remember their philosophy: "The Ends Justify The Means".

Yes. I think this is one of the first "feeding frenzies" of the 2014 election season, and I'm sorry to see that so many are willing to play along. The dims must be high fiving all around tonight, and planning their next move. There's sure to be another quote from someone that can even top this. Selective editing can do wonders.  :shrug:

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2014, 02:16:41 am »
That's an oversimplification using terms that benefit the liberal story. Do you think the inner city blacks have freedom and opportunity? Do they have the dignity that goes with having a job and a family and being responsible for both? You put the wow "trapped" in quotes, so that must mean you think it's their choice to live that way?

So, slavery is bad, so anything else is good?


Inner city blacks still have the CHOICE to either stay in their circumstances or be FREE of them.

Slaves had no such choice.

And the idea that arguing about the evil of slavery means that one things 'anything else is good' is not even rational.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2014, 02:16:49 am »
Yes.  And a perfect example of the utter depravity of man.

There is no defending it, nor rightful claim that it was no worse than the welfare state.

The fact of the matter is that there are blacks like Ben Carson and Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas.  The condition blacks are in in America now cannot, in any rational way, be compared to the wretched, evil condition of slavery.

And frankly, I am still appalled that anyone is doing it here on this forum.

Surely you are not aiming that at me??
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline speekinout

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2014, 02:18:08 am »
Yes.  And a perfect example of the utter depravity of man.

There is no defending it, nor rightful claim that it was no worse than the welfare state.

The fact of the matter is that there are blacks like Ben Carson and Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas.  The condition blacks are in in America now cannot, in any rational way, be compared to the wretched, evil condition of slavery.

And frankly, I am still appalled that anyone is doing it here on this forum.

There were black slave owners in the US.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2014, 02:18:59 am »
Yes. I think this is one of the first "feeding frenzies" of the 2014 election season, and I'm sorry to see that so many are willing to play along. The dims must be high fiving all around tonight, and planning their next move. There's sure to be another quote from someone that can even top this. Selective editing can do wonders.  :shrug:

So now, stating factually that slavery was evil and disagreeing with Bundy's careless words is "playing along" with the "libtards?"

You've got to be kidding me.   **nononono*

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline speekinout

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2014, 02:21:33 am »

Inner city blacks still have the CHOICE to either stay in their circumstances or be FREE of them.

Slaves had no such choice.

And the idea that arguing about the evil of slavery means that one things 'anything else is good' is not even rational.

Inner city blacks are choosing that? Maybe a few are, but exactly how do you see a choice for them? What future is there for an uneducated person with no job skills? Esp. if that person is a young woman with a child or two or three...

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2014, 02:24:24 am »
There were black slave owners in the US.

So???  I know the history of slavery in the US.

And trust me, no one kidnapped, put in shackles, packed in the hold of ships, body next to body, still in chains, and sold on the market, northern Europeans.

Again.............just because the left has distorted the subject and used it falsely, and the white leftists have created a ridiculously false white guilt, doesn't excuse the denial of what really happened here.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2014, 02:25:38 am »
Inner city blacks are choosing that? Maybe a few are, but exactly how do you see a choice for them? What future is there for an uneducated person with no job skills? Esp. if that person is a young woman with a child or two or three...

The historical TRUTH is that they were put there on purpose, with malice and forethought , by Lyndon Baines Johnson for the sole puropse of "having those n*ggers vote democrat for the next two hundred years"
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline speekinout

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2014, 02:25:48 am »
So now, stating factually that slavery was evil and disagreeing with Bundy's careless words is "playing along" with the "libtards?"

You've got to be kidding me.   **nononono*

Making a big deal of Bundy's words is definitely playing along. Of course slavery was evil. And his point that our welfare system is pretty awful and traps people in terrible living conditions is true, too. He made a mistake by comparing the two. We don't need to treat that comparison like the only way to discuss either issue.

Online Bigun

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2014, 02:28:33 am »
So???  I know the history of slavery in the US.

And trust me, no one kidnapped, put in shackles, packed in the hold of ships, body next to body, still in chains, and sold on the market, northern Europeans.

Again.............just because the left has distorted the subject and used it falsely, and the white leftists have created a ridiculously false white guilt, doesn't excuse the denial of what really happened here.

But please don't neglect the fact that the VAST majority of them were sold to the northern Europeans in the first place by their BLACK African neighbors!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 02:30:12 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien