Author Topic: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments  (Read 18659 times)

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Offline ABX

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2014, 12:17:09 am »
One thing that burns our side over and over and over (yet seems to work for libs) is lionizing characters instead of policy. We stake so much emotion and energy in defending the individual we lose focus on what policy or principle we stand for. We make people saints when they are just humans, with all their faults.

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2014, 12:17:45 am »
I completely agree with that!

I personally will never defend slavery and am quite sure Cliven Bundy could have said what he was trying to say much better than he did. Having said that, he IS free to say whatever he wishes about anything he wishes and suffer the consequences of doing so.
.

The fact remains that Mr. Bundy's opinions on Negroes/Slavery/The Welfare Plantation are not at all relevant.

What IS quite relevant is the FACT that our government is completely and totally out of control. The outrages against American Citizens are becoming more brazen on a daily basis.

Sooner or later we will be required to stand up and take this government down a notch or two. I believe that "sooner" is the better option.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

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I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline EC

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2014, 12:19:09 am »
I may have limited knowledge of snipers, but I don't think this looks like what snipers should look like.   I don't see any weapons in this photo.
And don't snipers do a much better job of concealing their positions?

It depends. Snipers have two completely separate jobs. Taking someone out from a distance, or discouraging anyone from starting something in the first place. Army snipers tend to do the former, police snipers tend to be used for the latter. The people you are looking at are not the snipers though - they are the spotters.
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Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2014, 12:20:06 am »
Don't spin for Bundy. We detest Jay Carney for doing it for Obama, so us doing it is hypocritical.

Bundy said what he said. I heard it, as did everyone else, and very few of us require translation services.

Jay Carney is not a Private Citizen as Mr. Bundy is. Huge difference.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2014, 12:25:10 am »
So what you're saying is that Cliven Bundy made these statements in order to provide leftist and the media (that's somewhat redundant, isn't it?) with a distraction to take attention away from the government abuses that he's protesting against?

Do I have that right?

What a silly question!  Of course that is not what I said!  Why would Bundy make those statements knowingly to distract the public away from his cause?  Clearly, Bundy has not won his case - but he's standing firm in his fight - and God love him, you've got to admire his resolve if nothing else.  He thinks he is in the right and he's not backing down - he's a stubborn old coot! 

Luis, I know that you have posted much information that pertains to this Bundy case, and I thank you for it - you have gone over and above in providing legal and historical data that shows - clearly, I think - that Bundy is on the losing side of the legality of this.  But, what I have taken from this whole story is an enlightenment of how the Federal Government is seemingly going out of the way to thwart ranchers, farmers and other individuals in trying to maintain family businesses that have been operated for generations.  People that are not doing any harm, that are producing products that are beneficial to the American people and to our economy.  The problem just seems to be getting worse and worse - as your avatar so vividly portrays with the frog in the pot - things are starting to boil over!

If nothing else, I appreciate that Bundy brought this to our attention.  It is eye-opening and especially to those of us living in the east - I was shocked to see the map of just how much land the BLM controls.  I think it was this Bundy incident that brought it into the spotlight and the reports of armed snipers, attack dogs - the killing of cattle rather than auctioning them off to recoup some of those delinquent fees.....a lot of us are scratching our heads and thinking "What the hell, can't they just put a lien on his property?"

What the hell indeed.  And NOW, of course it has been revealed to us that Bundy is, besides being a domestic terrorist - he is a RACIST!   :thud: Personally, I don't think he is an evil man.  I think he got caught up in being a media celebrity and got caught thinking out loud.  I don't agree with what he said, but I do think that too many people (and especially urban blacks) are virtually enslaved by a progressive government that has dangled freebies at the cost of dignity - and doubling down on it more every day! 

There's a lot of people getting damn sick and tired of it too.  It nauseates me to see us fight among ourselves because the media is demonizing an old man that is standing up to the gov't the only way he knows how.  When the media says, "jump" - we say, "how high"?  How high must we jump to prove to you that we are not racist - how high do we jump to make you love US?  When the media sets the trap, the Bundy's of the world spring it and get caught in the trap - while the rest of us run out to try to get the cheese before we scurry back into our mouseholes.  It's pitiful how we let THEM define us!       

 
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Offline happyg

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2014, 12:25:24 am »
It seems Media Matters did some creative editing of the video. 

http://patdollard.com/2014/04/shock-hoax-exposed-full-clip-of-cliven-bundys-non-racist-pro-black-anti-government-remarks-vs-media-matters-deceptively-edited-hoax-version-see-that-cliven-bundy-is-actually-an-advocat/


SEE THAT CLIVEN BUNDY IS ACTUALLY AN ADVOCATE FOR BLACKS, HISPANICS

Watch Bundy explain how we need to keep things from going backwards for blacks, and how the Federal government has created a neo-slave class via entitlement dependency that is so bad it is arguably worse than plantation slavery was. It is 100% clear that Cliven Bundy is not saying that blacks should be slaves picking cotton, but that the Federal government has created conditions for them so terrible, that their current situation may actually be worse. (If you are person of low intelligence, the fact that that is his point might be too hard for you to understand.) And he’s not blaming blacks for the issues of abortions, and crime and broken families, he’s blaming the Feds. This is the exact opposite of a racist, this is an advocate for the welfare and best interests of blacks. And just as importantly, you’ll at the end of the video he gives passionate praise and defense of hispanic illegal aliens, lauding them for “better family structures than most white peoples’” Racist? Why is he praising Mexicans as better than whites, if he’s some sort of white supremacist racist?. Take a hike all you lying, character-assassinating, leftist pieces of dog shit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI&feature=player_embedded

Now watch the edited version of Bundy’s remarks as promoted by the left-wing Media Matters and as reported in the NY Times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY&feature=player_embedded


Offline massadvj

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2014, 12:25:25 am »
The fact remains that Mr. Bundy's opinions on Negroes/Slavery/The Welfare Plantation are not at all relevant.

What IS quite relevant is the FACT that our government is completely and totally out of control. The outrages against American Citizens are becoming more brazen on a daily basis.

Sooner or later we will be required to stand up and take this government down a notch or two. I believe that "sooner" is the better option.

Maybe so, but Bundy‘s complaints against the Feds were not cut-and-dried.  And in 21st century Amerika being a racist is a bigger crime than murder.  That is just the way it is.

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2014, 12:30:27 am »
Maybe so, but Bundy‘s complaints against the Feds were not cut-and-dried.  And in 21st century Amerika being a racist is a bigger crime than murder.  That is just the way it is.

It is my considered opinion that the instant that an individual utters the word "racist", they should immediately receive a solid punch in the mouth.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2014, 12:33:49 am »
With all due respect, an African-American on today's progressive plantation is shackled only by his own mind.  He can leave if he so chooses.  African-American slaves had no such right.  An African-American slave was shackled with bonds of steel and threats of death.  If a slave left his master's plantation without permission, he could be hunted down and dragged back.  Under the Supreme Court's ruling in the Dred Scott case, an enslaved person was almost a non-entity:  they were not considered citizens of a state, even if they were emancipated.

Not only is Mr. Bundy's statement flagrantly wrong, it also gainsays everything Republicans and conservatives have said about racism.  If Mr. Bundy's statement were correct, then Blacks are still subjugated by racism and therefore affirmative action and anti-discrimination programs would be justified.

Mr. Bundy is not a hero.  Any conservative or Republican who treats him as such does incalculable damage.

What about those of us that stand by Mr. Bundy, American Citizen? As an OathKeeper, it is my sworn obligation to stand in his defense against tyranny. One that I take seriously and without reservation.
 

I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline Charlespg

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2014, 12:35:04 am »
Don't spin for Bundy. We detest Jay Carney for doing it for Obama, so us doing it is hypocritical.

Bundy said what he said. I heard it, as did everyone else, and very few of us require translation services.
look if you want to keep drinking the kool aid go ahead ,this guy is old man ,who is not media savvy, is not public speaker   and made the mistake of talking to members of  a lying media ..you and music lady can make remarks insinuating that those who support Bundy are raciest all the live long day
 We are still supposed have free speech in this country .and if you think that the BLM should allowed  to  railroad this man because of some stupid comments or some CNN hatchet job ..and spare me the howls about grazing fees .If I was being forced to pay fees being used to buy out my neighbors ,and run me off my land I would not pay the fees either
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Offline Carling

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2014, 12:39:42 am »
What about those of us that stand by Mr. Bundy, American Citizen? As an OathKeeper, it is my sworn obligation to stand in his defense against tyranny. One that I take seriously and without reservation.

Refusing to pay the same grazing fees that his ranching counterparts pay, in accordance to the law, isn't standing up to tyranny.  It's basically an alternate version of refusing to pay taxes.  This guy needs to shut the hell up and pay his share.  There are plenty of things to be outraged about re: the federal government, but this guy's tale of woe isn't one of them. 
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2014, 12:42:14 am »
Allen West has said the same thing as Bundy, but more fluently. Defending himself, Bundy said this:
That is not a racist, but someone who isn't used to speaking in public. He could not relate accurately what was in his heart. I don't get all the hub-bub surrounding this comments.

It is because there are elements on both the left and right that are desperately seeking *anything* to make this all go away!!  The core issues here make too many people too damn uncomfortable and they really don't want to face up to how "hard" this tyranny is getting every day.  Much easier to "criminalize" the guy standing up to it, rather than back him (regardless if he is "spotless" or not).  So this is just another excuse to pile on the old man, and hope nothing comes of his protest.  Some spend day and night researching every little jot and tittle to try to make Bundy out to be the bad guy, and in effect, make excuses for the federal gubmint.  Pretty sad if you think about it, but certainly not unexpected....  Don't want anyone to make too many waves to disrupt their bidness, retirement accounts, or vacation plans.....

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2014, 12:45:23 am »
The fact remains that Mr. Bundy's opinions on Negroes/Slavery/The Welfare Plantation are not at all relevant.

What IS quite relevant is the FACT that our government is completely and totally out of control. The outrages against American Citizens are becoming more brazen on a daily basis.

Sooner or later we will be required to stand up and take this government down a notch or two. I believe that "sooner" is the better option.

I agree totally, Howie!!  But you know, that for many, that is a bridge that they don't really want to cross.  They'd prefer the "later" option, preferably after their lifetimes..... they'd rather knock themselves out making up flimsy excuses for the federal gubmint than face reality...  damn disgusting...

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2014, 12:45:59 am »
Refusing to pay the same grazing fees that his ranching counterparts pay, in accordance to the law, isn't standing up to tyranny.  It's basically an alternate version of refusing to pay taxes.  This guy needs to shut the hell up and pay his share.  There are plenty of things to be outraged about re: the federal government, but this guy's tale of woe isn't one of them.

Really?

Looks to me that the Federals as claiming to own land that isn't theirs to own in the first place.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2014, 12:47:55 am »

SEE THAT CLIVEN BUNDY IS ACTUALLY AN ADVOCATE FOR BLACKS, HISPANICS

Watch Bundy explain how we need to keep things from going backwards for blacks, and how the Federal government has created a neo-slave class via entitlement dependency that is so bad it is arguably worse than plantation slavery was. It is 100% clear that Cliven Bundy is not saying that blacks should be slaves picking cotton, but that the Federal government has created conditions for them so terrible, that their current situation may actually be worse. (If you are person of low intelligence, the fact that that is his point might be too hard for you to understand.) And he’s not blaming blacks for the issues of abortions, and crime and broken families, he’s blaming the Feds. This is the exact opposite of a racist, this is an advocate for the welfare and best interests of blacks. And just as importantly, you’ll at the end of the video he gives passionate praise and defense of hispanic illegal aliens, lauding them for “better family structures than most white peoples’” Racist? Why is he praising Mexicans as better than whites, if he’s some sort of white supremacist racist?. Take a hike all you lying, character-assassinating, leftist pieces of dog shit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI&feature=player_embedded

Now watch the edited version of Bundy’s remarks as promoted by the left-wing Media Matters and as reported in the NY Times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY&feature=player_embedded

Thank you so much for posting this, Hap.  Of course, this just rains on the parade of those that thought they would finally turn everyone against Bundy...  lol

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2014, 12:51:13 am »
I agree totally, Howie!!  But you know, that for many, that is a bridge that they don't really want to cross.  They'd prefer the "later" option, preferably after their lifetimes..... they'd rather knock themselves out making up flimsy excuses for the federal gubmint than face reality...  damn disgusting...

Amen to that!
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2014, 12:53:12 am »
It is because there are elements on both the left and right that are desperately seeking *anything* to make this all go away!!  The core issues here make too many people too damn uncomfortable and they really don't want to face up to how "hard" this tyranny is getting every day.  Much easier to "criminalize" the guy standing up to it, rather than back him (regardless if he is "spotless" or not).  So this is just another excuse to pile on the old man, and hope nothing comes of his protest.  Some spend day and night researching every little jot and tittle to try to make Bundy out to be the bad guy, and in effect, make excuses for the federal gubmint.  Pretty sad if you think about it, but certainly not unexpected....  Don't want anyone to make too many waves to disrupt their bidness, retirement accounts, or vacation plans.....

Well said and spot on correct!
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Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2014, 12:53:49 am »
Thank you so much for posting this, Hap.  Of course, this just rains on the parade of those that thought they would finally turn everyone against Bundy...  lol

My dream would be for anybody associated with the "MSM" to be required to wear insignia announcing that status to everybody that they encounter in public.

Just sayin....  :beer:
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2014, 12:56:09 am »
Well said and spot on correct!

I'm waiting to see how this Bureau of Land Mismanagement wants to approach things here in Texas.

I am ready for our own showdown with these numbnuts.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2014, 12:56:27 am »
Since this thread long ago slid off into the outfield, I strongly recommend someone lock this thread, everyone take a deep calming breath and move on.

It has remained on track through its entirety.

Thread topic........"Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments."

My point solid through it all.  No matter what the left throws at us about being 'racist' we are cowering to THEM if we don't call real racism what it is.

The unfortunate fact is that there really are racists in this country......MOST on the left, but clearly a few on the right as well.

It is a problem of the human heart.

William Wilberforce felt God's call to end the slave trade in England.  John Newton was haunted until his death by the evil of slavery and his part in it.

Anyone who white washes evil and says it isn't so, is in the wrong.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Howie66

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #70 on: April 25, 2014, 01:01:27 am »
I believe that Ms. Kira Davis has hit the nail squarely on the head with her take on this.


http://youtu.be/n0zoee4k7yE
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline ABX

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #71 on: April 25, 2014, 01:02:44 am »
More and more, every day, I am beginning to think politics is just a big scripted reality show and we are all being played as suckers by the players who just want eyes on TVs and papers.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 01:03:02 am by AbaraXas »

Offline speekinout

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #72 on: April 25, 2014, 01:05:01 am »

SEE THAT CLIVEN BUNDY IS ACTUALLY AN ADVOCATE FOR BLACKS, HISPANICS


Thanks for posting this, happy. I am new to this story - I took my eyes and ears off the "news" for just a few hours and returned to find this story has more coverage than flight 370!
It's clear that Bundy isn't an articulate spokesman, and he's very politically naive. But what he says, if you listen to these quotes you've posted, is pretty much what a lot of conservatives have been saying for years. Welfare programs have made inner city blacks dependent on the gov't. And Planned Parenthood was started by Margaret Sanger, a known racist. Almost half of black babies are aborted. And the babies that survive are often trapped in poor schools where they don't get an education and wind up unemployed, unemployable, and likely to be involved in criminal activities. The girls too often become single mothers and the boys too often wind up in jail.

So he didn't phrase it well, but what did he say that conservatives object to?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2014, 01:09:47 am »
Thanks for posting this, happy. I am new to this story - I took my eyes and ears off the "news" for just a few hours and returned to find this story has more coverage than flight 370!
It's clear that Bundy isn't an articulate spokesman, and he's very politically naive. But what he says, if you listen to these quotes you've posted, is pretty much what a lot of conservatives have been saying for years. Welfare programs have made inner city blacks dependent on the gov't. And Planned Parenthood was started by Margaret Sanger, a known racist. Almost half of black babies are aborted. And the babies that survive are often trapped in poor schools where they don't get an education and wind up unemployed, unemployable, and likely to be involved in criminal activities. The girls too often become single mothers and the boys too often wind up in jail.

So he didn't phrase it well, but what did he say that conservatives object to?

That being "trapped" in welfare is equivalent to being owned, whipped, forced to work at will, by another human being.
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Offline EC

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #74 on: April 25, 2014, 01:11:43 am »
Mr. Bundy is not being subjected to any tyranny.  The BLM was certainly overzealous in its efforts to enforce the lawful court orders it had to remove Mr. Bundy's trespassing cattle from federal land.  Overzealousness is not tyranny.  Sheriffs and marshals routinely use force to evict people who refuse to comply with court orders.  Further, in many states, an evicted tenant's belongings can simply be dumped on the curb and the tenant cannot do anything if the property is damaged or stolen.

Much of the sympathy I had for Bundy has evaporated. The thought of one person owning another is abhorrent to me, and anyone who can suggest it is a good thing is someone I would like to meet one on one.

However, we are not talking a couch and some clothes here - we are talking the end result of a century long breeding program.
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