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Online mystery-ak

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Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« on: April 24, 2014, 02:22:50 PM »
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/204291-bundy-stands-by-his-comments

April 24, 2014, 01:50 pm
Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
By Laura Barron-Lopez


Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy on Thursday stood by the controversial comments he made about African-Americans that drew harsh criticism from Republicans who had previously backed his fight with the government over grazing fees.

Bundy's comments about slavery came under fire after The New York Times published a story on Thursday that quoted Bundy as referring to black people as "the Negro" and wondering if they were better off as slaves.


"The statement was right," Bundy said Thursday in an interview on "The Peter Schiff Show."
"I'm wondering if they are better off under the government subsidy when their young women are having abortions and their young men are in jail. I'm wondering are they happier now under this government subsidy system then they were when they were slaves and able to have their family structure together and chickens and a garden," Bundy said Thursday.

The comments have unleashed a flurry of comments from lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Republican Sens. Rand Paul (Ky.) and Dean Heller (Nev.) called Bundy's statements racist and offensive.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) called Bundy a "hateful racist."

Bundy first received national attention earlier this month after the Bureau of Land Management sent armed officers and contractors to his ranch to confiscate his cattle.




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Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 02:25:13 PM »
Slaves had their children sold off.  Slave women were raped by their masters and had their children.

One can argue about the clear evil and destruction of the welfare state, but worse than slavery??

Shut up, Cliven.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 02:26:43 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI</a>

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Offline flowers

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 02:31:32 PM »
Slaves had their children sold off.  Slave women were raped by their masters and had their children.

One can argue about the clear evil and destruction of the welfare state, but worse than slavery??

Shut up, Cliven.
I agree......shut up!!!!


Offline alicewonders

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 02:47:01 PM »
This is called DISTRACTION.  It's what the media does to get people's attention off of sticky topics that hurt progressives.  The issue of an over-reacting sniper-armed BLM and the attention it brought to  the land-grabbing out west got a little too hot for them.  So let's "expose" these "domestic terrorists" for the hate-filled bigots they really are... and look over there!  It's a squirrel!  We fall for it everytime.  Just when they're starting to squirm a bit - they pull the old re-direct trick and poof!  Suddenly we forgot the real issue.  They are trying to make Bundy into the conservative spokesman and he is not.  But watch us all run away from the original REAL issue. 

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 02:51:09 PM »
This is called DISTRACTION.  It's what the media does to get people's attention off of sticky topics that hurt progressives.  The issue of an over-reacting sniper-armed BLM and the attention it brought to  the land-grabbing out west got a little too hot for them.  So let's "expose" these "domestic terrorists" for the hate-filled bigots they really are... and look over there!  It's a squirrel!  We fall for it everytime.  Just when they're starting to squirm a bit - they pull the old re-direct trick and poof!  Suddenly we forgot the real issue.  They are trying to make Bundy into the conservative spokesman and he is not.  But watch us all run away from the original REAL issue.

OF COURSE it's a distraction.  It's what the left does.

But some distractions are destructive, and defending an indefensible position (Bundy's) is what is playing into the hands of the left.

We all need to condemn, in powerful unison, what Bundy said.

(There are actually quite  a few conservatives who accepted Bundy as their 'spokesman.'  That was a very bad idea).
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline LambChop

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 02:56:23 PM »
This is called DISTRACTION.  It's what the media does to get people's attention off of sticky topics that hurt progressives.  The issue of an over-reacting sniper-armed BLM and the attention it brought to  the land-grabbing out west got a little too hot for them.  So let's "expose" these "domestic terrorists" for the hate-filled bigots they really are... and look over there!  It's a squirrel!  We fall for it everytime.  Just when they're starting to squirm a bit - they pull the old re-direct trick and poof!  Suddenly we forgot the real issue.  They are trying to make Bundy into the conservative spokesman and he is not.  But watch us all run away from the original REAL issue.

Here's the thing.  I've been trying to find the info or pictures of those "sniper armed BLM" and can't find anything.  I have however found that information for the people who showed up in defense of Bundy.

I feel those who are supporting him and his antics are wrong.  Over a few threads here Luis G and a couple others have laid out very supportive information against Bundy.  This man is a free loader, a cheat and swindler.  And he's going to get someone killed.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 03:29:26 PM »
This is called DISTRACTION.  It's what the media does to get people's attention off of sticky topics that hurt progressives.  The issue of an over-reacting sniper-armed BLM and the attention it brought to  the land-grabbing out west got a little too hot for them.  So let's "expose" these "domestic terrorists" for the hate-filled bigots they really are... and look over there!  It's a squirrel!  We fall for it everytime.  Just when they're starting to squirm a bit - they pull the old re-direct trick and poof!  Suddenly we forgot the real issue.  They are trying to make Bundy into the conservative spokesman and he is not.  But watch us all run away from the original REAL issue.

So what you're saying is that Cliven Bundy made these statements in order to provide leftist and the media (that's somewhat redundant, isn't it?) with a distraction to take attention away from the government abuses that he's protesting against?

Do I have that right?
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline happyg

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 03:34:27 PM »
Here's the thing.  I've been trying to find the info or pictures of those "sniper armed BLM" and can't find anything.  I have however found that information for the people who showed up in defense of Bundy.

I feel those who are supporting him and his antics are wrong.  Over a few threads here Luis G and a couple others have laid out very supportive information against Bundy.  This man is a free loader, a cheat and swindler.  And he's going to get someone killed.




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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 03:42:41 PM »
Just as this man continues to define himself by his actions and his words, those who continue to support him will be defined by Bundy's words and actions. In the end, whatever broad brush it is that will used to paint Bundy will likewise paint his followers with every color and hue assigned to the man.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).


Offline Charlespg

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 03:58:05 PM »
This is called DISTRACTION.  It's what the media does to get people's attention off of sticky topics that hurt progressives.  The issue of an over-reacting sniper-armed BLM and the attention it brought to  the land-grabbing out west got a little too hot for them.  So let's "expose" these "domestic terrorists" for the hate-filled bigots they really are... and look over there!  It's a squirrel!  We fall for it everytime.  Just when they're starting to squirm a bit - they pull the old re-direct trick and poof!  Suddenly we forgot the real issue.  They are trying to make Bundy into the conservative spokesman and he is not.  But watch us all run away from the original REAL issue.
Ditto Stop playing the liberal game ,because some jackass reporter got some old gentleman to put in his mouth does not mean we should stop supporting him ..and again he was right blacks are no better on massa liberals plantation then they were in slavery ..Its way past time for Conservatives to tell the liberals to take their racism charges and shove them  up their you know where
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 04:08:05 PM »
Ditto Stop playing the liberal game ,because some jackass reporter got some old gentleman to put in his mouth does not mean we should stop supporting him ..and again he was right blacks are no better on massa liberals plantation then they were in slavery ..Its way past time for Conservatives to tell the liberals to take their racism charges and shove them  up their you know where

I could not disagree with you more, Charles.

Yes, the Democrat plantation is a horrible, disabling place to be, but slaves were owned, beaten, sold (children away from their mothers), raped and abused.  There is NO comparison, no matter how bad the current conditions are  (and I am the first to shout out about the grave condition the left has placed blacks in, with support from blacks, themselves).

However, even saying that they are now worse off is, IMO, a dangerous (and ignorant) position to put conservatives in.

The problem here is that conservatives did NOT center on the issue, and (many) DID hold up Bundy as a hero.

He should never, IMO, been 'supported' personally in the first place.  The cause of gov't overreach, yes.  Cliven Bundy, NO.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 04:27:05 PM »
musiclady wrote:
[[ We all need to condemn, in powerful unison, what Bundy said. ]]

I will not condemn what Mr. Bundy said.
On the contrary, I will endorse it.
He spoke what is essentially the truth.

But insofar as "race" is concerned in America, whites can no longer speak the truth, or express what they really believe. For almost fifty years, the conversation has been "one-sided", and that "side" is "the left one".

ANYTHING whites say that does not conform to what blacks and the left dictate that they should say is immediately condemned as "racist". Any white that dares speak out will immediately be hounded and crucified in the media, until he/she recants. We have seen this again and again and again and again....

I will no longer swallow that fish, and it dismays me that the good conservatives of this forum scurry for the mouse holes when the subject is raised.

Cliven Bundy said what he said. And what he said, like it or not, represents the sentiments of many whites who look in disgust at what blacks in America have become -- and who are responsible only to themselves for their plight. Whites didn't create the cesspool that is today's black culture -- "The Negro" did this to himself.

I also applaud Mr. Bundy's refusal to back down. The racial conversation in America will remain a one-sided dialogue UNTIL there are more, many more, white folks with the intestinal fortitude of Mr. Bundy.

Good on 'im !!

Adendum:
Was it not Eric Holder himself who once chided Americans as being a "nation of cowards" insofar as race is concerned ??
One thing we know for certain: whatever Cliven Bundy is, and you may call him "racis'" if you wish -- he is NOT one of Mr. Holder's "cowards"...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 04:44:05 PM by Fishrrman »

Offline Charlespg

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 04:46:00 PM »
musiclady wrote:
[[ We all need to condemn, in powerful unison, what Bundy said. ]]

I will not condemn what Mr. Bundy said.
On the contrary, I will endorse it.
He spoke what is essentially the truth.

But insofar as "race" is concerned in America, whites can no longer speak the truth, or express what they really believe. For almost fifty years, the conversation has been "one-sided", and that "side" is "the left one".

ANYTHING whites say that does not conform to what blacks and the left dictate that they should say is immediately condemned as "racist". Any white that dares speak out will immediately be hounded and crucified in the media, until he/she recants. We have seen this again and again and again and again....

I will no longer swallow that fish, and it dismays me that the good conservatives of this forum scurry for the mouse holes when the subject is raised.

Cliven Bundy said what he said. And what he said, like it or not, represents the sentiments of many whites who look in disgust at what blacks in America have become -- and who are responsible only to themselves for their plight. Whites didn't create the cesspool that is today's black culture -- "The Negro" did this to himself.

I also applaud Mr. Bundy's refusal to back down. The racial conversation in America will remain a one-sided dialogue UNTIL there are more, many more, white folks with the intestinal fortitude of Mr. Bundy.

Good on 'im !!
Exactly White liberals have destroyed black America with help of race hustlers like Al sharpton  and Jessie Jack$$on ..And Music lady blacks are worse off on the democratic plantation
the death rate for slavery can not be high as the rate for liberal funded black abortions or the community  any worse off with the  liberal  dogma..don't take responsibly for you actions ,dont  condemn the rotten gangster loving culture ..don't condemn race baiting con-men like Sharpton or thugs like St Martin of Skittles or Hurricane Carter, blame whitey and vote democrat...look at Detroit
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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 04:46:09 PM »
I will condemn him for that statement.

No person has the right to own another person. Full bleep stop.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 05:00:31 PM »
To both Fishrrman and Charlespg........

No matter WHAT The left has done to distort the conversation, to defend slavery as 'not so bad,' is absolutely INEXCUSABLE.

The left has destroyed the black family, personal ambition, self-respect, security, education and wealth with their welfare state.

And YES.........you will find me perhaps the most vocal on this board about how abortion is black genocide.

But there is no way in all the world that any decent human being should be defending slavery.......on this board, or any other.

We do not respond to the EVIL of the left with more evil.

Stop it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 05:22:17 PM »
Musiclady wrote above:
[[ And YES.........you will find me perhaps the most vocal on this board about how abortion is black genocide.
But there is no way in all the world that any decent human being should be defending slavery.......on this board, or any other. ]]

I was going to post this before but thought it might be too incendiary.
But -- you raised the subject of blacks, abortion, and slavery, so here goes...

Consider the black fetus during the days of slavery, vis-a-vis the black fetus TODAY.
Which fetus had a better chance at being carried to term, to be born, to see the light of day, to breathe?
Bear in mind that TODAY, roughly 50% of all black pregnancies are terminated by abortion.

So... if you had to be a black fetus, and had the power of choice, which would you choose to be? The one during the awful days of slavery, or today??

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 05:31:33 PM »
Musiclady wrote above:
[[ And YES.........you will find me perhaps the most vocal on this board about how abortion is black genocide.
But there is no way in all the world that any decent human being should be defending slavery.......on this board, or any other. ]]

I was going to post this before but thought it might be too incendiary.
But -- you raised the subject of blacks, abortion, and slavery, so here goes...

Consider the black fetus during the days of slavery, vis-a-vis the black fetus TODAY.
Which fetus had a better chance at being carried to term, to be born, to see the light of day, to breathe?
Bear in mind that TODAY, roughly 50% of all black pregnancies are terminated by abortion.

So... if you had to be a black fetus, and had the power of choice, which would you choose to be? The one during the awful days of slavery, or today??

That's a completely bogus set up.  (And I wasn't the one who brought up abortion.  I was responding to it).

You cannot say, in good conscience, that the evil of abortion negates the evil of slavery.

You have set up a false dichotomy in order to make a point that cannot be rationally made.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 05:37:53 PM »
Here's how Cliven Bundy responded to news reports of "The Negro" statement:
“That’s exactly what I said. I said I’m wondering if they’re better off under government subsidy, and their young women are having the abortions and their young men are in jail, and their older women and their children are standing, sitting out on the cement porch without nothing to do, you know, I’m wondering: Are they happier now under this government subsidy system than they were when they were slaves, and they was able to have their family structure together, and the chickens and garden, and the people had something to do? And so, in my mind I’m wondering, are they better off being slaves, in that sense, or better off being slaves to the United States government, in the sense of the subsidies. I’m wondering. That’s what. And the statement was right. I am wondering.”

I sense a lot of white folks are also "wondering"...

Here's an excerpt from a post I put up on TOS a while back:
=================
There are “two Americas” now. The “dividing” has been happening for decades (perhaps since the beginning of “The Great Society”), but the two sides are now coalescing into “opposing spheres”. Imagine, if you will, the filmed image of a single cell dividing into two cells. That’s what’s going on in the country right now.

On one side are the “old-fashioned”, “traditional” Americans. These folks still believe in such things as traditional marriage, work, independence, freedom — a “life ethic” that is pretty much derived from the old “Scots-Irish” tradition. They are inherently distrustful of others who “tell them how to live”, and increasingly, that means “government” - a government that seems intent on taking away much of what they have worked for. Perhaps it’s impolite to say so, but the overwhelming majority of the traditional Americans are of “Euro” heritage. These are the “Don’t Tread On Me” people.

On the OTHER side is a growing cohort of people who harbor beliefs that are diametrically opposed from the above group. These people see government as “the giver”. Consequently, they view conservatives who oppose government largesse and power as a threat to their needs, and brand them as intolerant and “racist”.

Call this “the new slavery”, if you will. Only now, it’s government that has become “the new Massa”, and corrupt politicians and their ever expanding cadre of bureaucrats, administrators, and regulators who take on the role of “the new overseers”.

On the one side are those who cherish freedom and mistrust government. On the other, those who crave entitlements and government and its “gifts”, and who don’t seem to care much about their own “freedom”, so long as they get handouts.
source:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2916861/posts?page=16#16
=================

I wrote that a couple of years' back, about what I see as "the new slavery" in America -- a slavery that too many blacks seem to be all-too-wiling to accept. (Aside, this is a problem NOT limited to blacks alone, but is fast spreading to the white working class. For a seminal article, see Charles Murray's piece in the Wall Street Journal entitled "The Coming White Underclass", originally published on October 29, 1993.)

Mr. Bundy seems to hail from the old Scots-Irish tradition.
Fortunately, he does not seem to be easily intimidated.

No, we don't want "the old slavery" back.
But isn't "the new slavery" such a great leap forward ???

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 05:56:14 PM »
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline musiclady

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 06:02:44 PM »
Ah, yes...............Free Republic............

Racism..............only one of the myriad of reasons I left that filthy place....

But back to the point, which you, yourself made (according to you years ago).  Blacks are CHOOSING to live on the Democrat plantation.  They did not choose to live on a plantation as a slave, and implying that the two are the same, or that the current 'slavery' is worse, is again, a false dichotomy.


And I will once again reiterate my opinion that abortion is the greatest evil in the history of the country.

But that IN NO WAY negates how evil slavery was.

God led William Wilberforce to end the slave trade because of it was vile and demonic.  John Newton was haunted the rest of his life, even after coming to Christ, for the evil he had done on his slave ships.

There is no way in all the world that a rational person can have the position that it wasn't all that bad.

(And I can't believe that, on this otherwise rational board, these things even have to be said.   **nononono* )
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 06:04:26 PM by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 06:13:10 PM »
Ah, yes...............Free Republic............

Racism..............only one of the myriad of reasons I left that filthy place....

But back to the point, which you, yourself made (according to you years ago).  Blacks are CHOOSING to live on the Democrat plantation.  They did not choose to live on a plantation as a slave, and implying that the two are the same, or that the current 'slavery' is worse, is again, a false dichotomy.


And I will once again reiterate my opinion that abortion is the greatest evil in the history of the country.

But that IN NO WAY negates how evil slavery was.

God led William Wilberforce to end the slave trade because of it was vile and demonic.  John Newton was haunted the rest of his life, even after coming to Christ, for the evil he had done on his slave ships.

There is no way in all the world that a rational person can have the position that it wasn't all that bad.

(And I can't believe that, on this otherwise rational board, these things even have to be said.   **nononono* )

 goopo
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

Offline Charlespg

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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 06:14:54 PM »
Music Lady wrote
Quote
to defend slavery as 'not so bad,
don't put words in my mouth.I never said slavery was "not so bad " nor do I defend it  ..I said Bundy was right about Democratic slavery ,he is not the only person to wonder if they  were no better off ...and I  For one am tired of Conservatives letting  liberals play the race card .I don't give a tinkers damm if Bundy is raciest or not ,Randy Weaver was a white separatist  and I still think the FBI Sniper &  the SOBs responsible   for that fiasco need to be hanged ...This is still about a out of control government,to hell and damnation  with what ever some nasty little bleep NYT reporters writes


.Conservatives need to stop  wetting our pants every time some liberal skunk screams racism
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 06:17:41 PM by Charlespg »
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Re: Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 06:15:11 PM »
And I will once again reiterate my opinion that abortion is the greatest evil in the history of the country.

But that IN NO WAY negates how evil slavery was.

Not a lot of difference, in my book.
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