Author Topic: "CIVILIAN NATIONAL SECURITY FORCE:" Obama's goals become clear with hid militarized government  (Read 666 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:25:16 PM by rangerrebew »
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline Chieftain

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Offline EC

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http://universalfreepress.com/civilian-national-security-force-obamas-goals-become-clear-with-his-militarized-government/


There are a few - that was just the top one that matched both headline and text.

It's easy to miss the link when posting - I do it all the damned time.  :shrug:
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:14:36 PM by EC »
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Offline Chieftain

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Offline Chieftain

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Please take a moment to review the information I just posted on Posse Comitatus, then, considering the direct prohibition against using US Military Personnel as domestic law enforcement; at what point do the domestic law enforcement officers become defacto govenment para-military troops??  In many cases local police departments and Sheriffs have well trained military assault teams that are better armed and better outfitted than what our troops fighting the Taliban have.

If police officers are better outfitted and armed for urban assault than your average Army troop is, are they not in violation of Posse Comitatus, and therefore operating extra-constitutionally?? 

 :pondering:

Offline Oceander

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Please take a moment to review the information I just posted on Posse Comitatus, then, considering the direct prohibition against using US Military Personnel as domestic law enforcement; at what point do the domestic law enforcement officers become defacto govenment para-military troops??  In many cases local police departments and Sheriffs have well trained military assault teams that are better armed and better outfitted than what our troops fighting the Taliban have.

If police officers are better outfitted and armed for urban assault than your average Army troop is, are they not in violation of Posse Comitatus, and therefore operating extra-constitutionally?? 

 :pondering:

In a word, nope.  For that act to kick in, federal military action must be involved and unless the state law enforcement officers in question have been made a part of the federal military command structure, their actions are not federal actions and therefore the posse comitatus act does not apply.

Offline EC

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Please take a moment to review the information I just posted on Posse Comitatus, then, considering the direct prohibition against using US Military Personnel as domestic law enforcement; at what point do the domestic law enforcement officers become defacto govenment para-military troops??  In many cases local police departments and Sheriffs have well trained military assault teams that are better armed and better outfitted than what our troops fighting the Taliban have.

If police officers are better outfitted and armed for urban assault than your average Army troop is, are they not in violation of Posse Comitatus, and therefore operating extra-constitutionally?? 

 :pondering:

You wandered into a rather large grey area.

Is the National Guard not called out to keep the peace? They are technically military.
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Offline Oceander

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You wandered into a rather large grey area.

Is the National Guard not called out to keep the peace? They are technically military.

depends on what you mean by "technically military."  If by that you simply mean they carry armaments similar to those carried by the US armed forces, then yes, they are.  But if by that you mean they are a part of the US military command, and subject to the orders of the US military, then they are not when they are acting under the authority of the state they serve, because then they are subject to the command of the state's executive, not the federal government's executive.

The level of armament doesn't matter; it's the chain of command that matters.

Offline Chieftain

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depends on what you mean by "technically military."  If by that you simply mean they carry armaments similar to those carried by the US armed forces, then yes, they are.  But if by that you mean they are a part of the US military command, and subject to the orders of the US military, then they are not when they are acting under the authority of the state they serve, because then they are subject to the command of the state's executive, not the federal government's executive.

The level of armament doesn't matter; it's the chain of command that matters.

I was pretty sure that was the answer, but what's the real difference if it is an Army Corporal sitting behind that Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle, or one of your local Sheriff's Deputies?? 


Offline Oceander

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I was pretty sure that was the answer, but what's the real difference if it is an Army Corporal sitting behind that Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle, or one of your local Sheriff's Deputies??

For one thing, the deputy sitting behind the gun is more likely to know locals, to be a local, and to understand/sympathize with local concerns, as is the sheriff who put him there.  an army corporal who hails from, say, the Bronx is very unlikely to understand, appreciate, or sympathize with the concerns of ranchers in Nevada.

Offline Fishrrman

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Chieftan wrote above:
[[ If police officers are better outfitted and armed for urban assault than your average Army troop is, are they not in violation of Posse Comitatus, and therefore operating extra-constitutionally?? ]]

I'll offer my answer (the one that will be proffered by the government):
No, they are not.
At least that's how the argument is going to be made for using militarized officers of -civilian- (important word) governmental agencies to do the "police work" of government.

This becomes the excuse they have to circumvent Posse Comitatus, and render it moot (from the point of it having been passed to protect Americans from unlawful force applied against them by the use of troops by the federal government).

Transform the new troopers into "civilian police". Arm them to the teeth, with all the weapons, gear, and backup support normally provided to military personnel.

We see this going on right now, and NO ONE is doing anything to stop it. Of course, the democrats will oppose any efforts to stop it, because to them "the government" is the ultimate authority, and all must submit to its demands. But the Republicans are going to do nothing to stop it, either. At least a VERY few may speak out against it. But that isn't going to STOP what's happening.

The only way this will be stopped is when one or more states, acting together, use whatever resources they have within their borders (state police, national guard under authority of the governors, local sheriffs, local police, or even organized groups of civilians) to intervene (in an action being undertaken within one or more state borders) and confront the federals, and literally force them to back down. Yes, I know what that implies.

Ahem... didn't something like that just happen a few days ago?

But that's the only way this can be put to an end.
Of the people, by the people, for the people....

Offline Chieftain

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For one thing, the deputy sitting behind the gun is more likely to know locals, to be a local, and to understand/sympathize with local concerns, as is the sheriff who put him there.  an army corporal who hails from, say, the Bronx is very unlikely to understand, appreciate, or sympathize with the concerns of ranchers in Nevada.

And I am not willing to bet my life on that distinction.


Offline Oceander

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And I am not willing to bet my life on that distinction.

then you'd better stay at home under the bed 'cause that distinction is the only one you're going to get; posse comitatus does not apply to state actors, whether you will it or not.

Offline rangerrebew

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[/b]
In 2011, U.S. President Barack Obama signed National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 into law. Section 1021, clause "b", article 2 defines a 'covered person', i.e., someone possibly subject to martial law, as the following: "A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces

Since Obama is sending weapons to aid "moderate" Al Qaeda in Syria, doesn't that make him a covered person?
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline Oceander

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Since Obama is sending weapons to aid "moderate" Al Qaeda in Syria, doesn't that make him a covered person?


Good point!!


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