Vietnam’s punishment for corrupt bankers: Death

[Oceander]

Washington Post

Vietnam’s punishment for corrupt bankers:  Death

BY TERRENCE MCCOY
April 4 at 4:03 am

On June 29, 2009, upon conviction of running a Ponzi scheme that bamboozled investors of at least $18 billion, Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in federal prison. The sentence, the maximum prosecutors had requested, came at a time of public anger against bankers who had shown uninhibited avarice before the financial collapse. The punishment was almost unanimously hailed: Finally, at least one corrupt financier had gotten his comeuppance.

“The sentence imposed today recognizes the significance of Bernard Madoff’s crimes,” the prosecuting U.S. attorney said. The judge called Madoff’s crimes “extraordinarily evil.”

By Vietnamese standards, Madoff got off easy.

In the past five months, at least three Vietnamese bankers have been sentenced to death — though their crimes amount to just 1 percent of Madoff’s haul.
Last month, a 57-year-old director of a Vietnam Development Bank was sentenced to death after he and 12 others approved counterfeit loans in the amount of $89 million. For inking those contracts, he got a BMW, a diamond ring, and $5.5 million in kickbacks. His death sentence follows similar punishments meted out to two other bankers: One was sent to death row in November for his part in a $25 million scam, and the other, banker Duong Chi Dung, got his in December.

The sentences offer a sharp contrast between how the West handles financial crimes — prison terms, sometimes just a fine — and how some East Asian countries do it. China also executes those convicted of economic crimes, though it’s unclear how many.

In Vietnam, executions have historically been gruesome. A firing squad stuffs the convicted’s mouth with lemons. Then, if customs described by Death Penalty Worldwide are true, he’s tied to a pole and shot by five to seven men. “As the prisoner is dying,” the organization reports, “an officer fires a pistol shot through the condemned’s ear.”

[Oceander]

Duong Chi Dung , 56, former chairman of Vinalines, and his accomplices listen to the verdict at a local People’s Court in Hanoi on December 16, 2013. Vietnam, on December 16, sentenced two former top executives at scandal-hit national shipping company Vinalines to death for embezzlement as authorities try to allay rising public anger over corruption. (Vietnam News Agency/AFP/Getty Images)

[EC]

I can live with that. So should anyone be able to.

White collar crime gets excused far too often as being a "victimless" crime. It ain't.

[Oceander]

I can live with that. So should anyone be able to.

White collar crime gets excused far too often as being a "victimless" crime. It ain't.

disagree completely.  white collar crime is economic and can be compensated for, and should be treated accordingly.  there's also the issue of culpability; this is a bad case on which to form general principles because of its egregiousness; in the much more typical case the blameworthiness of the individual involved is much more ambiguous, and often hinges on what would be considered negligence or gross negligence in the civil context.  Executing someone for economic crimes is outrageous.

[xfreeper]

white collar crime is economic and can be compensated for

True in theory but how often is that the case? Death for criminal bankers is a little over the top but add crooked lawyers and politicians in and I'll buy in

[Oceander]

white collar crime is economic and can be compensated for

True in theory but how often is that the case? Death for criminal bankers is a little over the top but add crooked lawyers and politicians in and I'll buy in

then we should be consistent:  a kid who steals a pack of gum can't give that gum back if he's already chewed it, so we'd better be putting him to death as well.

And in the meantime, you might want to be a little careful about yourself.  You have almost certainly committed at least one federal felony in the past year, and depending on the line of work you're in, could easily get caught up in a white collar prosecution, even if you're wholly innocent.  And yes, it happens all the time:  the US attorney will find all the little fish he or she can, and start squeezing each one to see just how far their eyeballs will pop out.  The unlucky ones who can't fabricate enough "evidence" to satisfy the US atty get prosecuted themselves.

Do you want to be put to death because you were peripherally involved with a transaction that ended up being a white collar crime?

[xfreeper]

Like I said, crooked bankers, attorneys and politicians. Kill em all. I'm in neither category so I'm safe for now

[EC]

then we should be consistent:  a kid who steals a pack of gum can't give that gum back if he's already chewed it, so we'd better be putting him to death as well.

Nice try. A pack of gum is not in the same league.

The bankers we are discussing have stolen peoples time, their retirement hopes, their dreams. More importantly, their trust. Sounds a heck of a lot like murder or rape, put like that.

You should know - you work in an industry where trust is both in short supply and rarely granted. (Don't know how you do it, to be honest. It would kill me to work that environment.) Use a bank, you are trusting the bank with your third most precious possession after your life and your heart.

[Oceander]

Nice try. A pack of gum is not in the same league.

The bankers we are discussing have stolen peoples time, their retirement hopes, their dreams. More importantly, their trust. Sounds a heck of a lot like murder or rape, put like that.

You should know - you work in an industry where trust is both in short supply and rarely granted. (Don't know how you do it, to be honest. It would kill me to work that environment.) Use a bank, you are trusting the bank with your third most precious possession after your life and your heart.

I think you should spend some time reading through what really happens in the white collar crime grist mills before you get too comfy on that high horse of yours.  Go read this story - http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,134156.msg548867.html#msg548867 - and then ponder whether she deserves the death penalty.

[Relic]

I can live with that. So should anyone be able to.

White collar crime gets excused far too often as being a "victimless" crime. It ain't.

I totally agree.

Give some of those people what they deserve, let them pay the ultimate price, and banking will become much more civilized.

[Fishrrman]

Oceander wrote above:
[[ Executing someone for economic crimes is outrageous. ]]

Apparently they don't think so in Vietnam or in China...

But hey -- all cultures are equal and none are superior to others, right ??

[EC]

I think you should spend some time reading through what really happens in the white collar crime grist mills before you get too comfy on that high horse of yours.  Go read this story - http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,134156.msg548867.html#msg548867 - and then ponder whether she deserves the death penalty.

You are comparing chalk and cheese.

Whom, exactly, did she steal from? No one.
What did she steal? Nothing.
Was she guilty of bad judgement? Yep.
Was it any different from what anyone here does? Nope. If you are on the clock you should be wrking, not futzing about with personal emails or forum posts.

Now - point to a single person who was damaged by her actions. To me, that is the difference.