Author Topic: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia  (Read 533 times)

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Offline Oceander

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NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« on: April 01, 2014, 08:28:22 PM »
Australian Times

NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia

April 02, 2014 7:33AM

NATO says it has suspended all cooperation with Russia over the Crimea crisis and is questioning Moscow's claim to have withdrawn troops from near the Ukrainian border.

The Western alliance's latest statements came as Moscow heaped even more pressure on Ukraine's teetering economy with a painful gas-price hike, undermining what had been tentative signs of a calming in the worst East-West standoff since the Cold War.

Ukraine's parliament has met one of Moscow's key demands by voting unanimously to disarm all self-defence groups that sprang up across the country during its political crisis, which erupted in late November over the then-government's decision to ditch a landmark EU alliance.

But tensions remain high more than two weeks after Moscow formally annexed Crimea, and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen says the alliance is “suspending all practical co-operation with Russia, military and civilian”.

He says however that “diplomatic lines of communication” remain open.

Mr Rasmussen also warned that he could not confirm Russia had pulled away from the Ukrainian border.

“This is not what we have seen,” he said as NATO foreign ministers gathered for two days of talks, including US Secretary of State John Kerry.

Ukraine and the United States have accused Russia of massing thousands of troops near the border and have expressed concern Moscow plans to seize south-eastern parts of Ukraine that are home to large populations of ethnic Russians.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel's office said Russian President Vladimir Putin had personally informed her of the troop pullback in a phone conversation and said she had “no reason” to doubt his word.

Ukraine also reported that Russian troops were leaving the sensitive area, adding it appeared to coincide with a phone call Mr Putin had unexpectedly placed to US President Barack Obama on Friday.

With the assurances from Moscow, NATO stepped back from a floated idea to reinforce the alliance's military presence in countries bordering Russia, preferring for now to suspend co-operation and give more time to talks.

“I think everybody realises that the best way forward is a political and diplomatic dialogue,” Mr Rasmussen said, though he added NATO was “very determined to provide effective defence and protection of our allies”.

One countermeasure apparently off the table for now is the idea to set up permanent military bases in NATO countries bordering Russia.

The move would be highly controversial for Moscow, reversing an informal agreement made when NATO expanded east to include former Warsaw Pact countries eager to break away from years of Soviet domination.

But Dutch Foreign Minister Frank Timmermans said that for now “we don't need NATO troops at the border with Russia,” adding there was “no need for sudden moves”.

Eastern NATO members — such as the Baltic nations and Poland — want a tougher stance against Russia and would welcome a deeper NATO presence within their borders.

In a joint statement, ministers confirmed that military and civilian co-operation between NATO and Russia was suspended, but said projects in Afghanistan would remain and diplomatic channels were still open.

Mr Rasmussen added that joint efforts to fight narcotics traffic in Afghanistan would continue.

The crisis is at an especially critical juncture in Kiev as Ukrainian politicians jockey for position ahead of May 25 presidential elections.

And with Moscow able to use gas as a lever, Gazprom chief executive Alexei Miller says Ukraine will now pay $385.5 dollars per 1000 cubic metres of gas from the previous cut rate of $268.5.

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 02:26:16 AM »
This will not last too long. Russia supplies natural gas to NATO countries. When they find their gas supplies dwindle it will a very cold winter.

Offline aligncare

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 05:40:48 AM »
Without revenue that sales bring, natural gas is useless to Moscow. I doubt Putin would withhold that revenue stream from the market.
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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 05:43:23 AM »
Without revenue that sales bring, natural gas is useless to Moscow. I doubt Putin would withhold that revenue stream from the market.

I agree. He is just using the natural gas as a bargaining chip. Do as I say and will not cut off your natural gas supply. So far, the EU is falling into his trap.Even if Putin manages to cut off the natural gas supplies, the United States can pick up the slack. Australia has turned up huge deposits of untapped natural gas waiting to be fracked.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 06:13:50 AM by SPQR »

Offline Oceander

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 02:32:07 PM »
Without revenue that sales bring, natural gas is useless to Moscow. I doubt Putin would withhold that revenue stream from the market.

exactly.  from what I've read, Putin is taking a pretty big gamble here on the assumption that when push comes to shove the Europeans will be more interested in preserving their natural gas supplies than in supporting NATO.  It's a big risk because Russia has become a petro-state and the loss of that revenue would be catastrophic.

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 04:29:44 PM »
exactly.  from what I've read, Putin is taking a pretty big gamble here on the assumption that when push comes to shove the Europeans will be more interested in preserving their natural gas supplies than in supporting NATO.  It's a big risk because Russia has become a petro-state and the loss of that revenue would be catastrophic.

It's not that big a risk. Sure, the UK and Norway would be fine, but the North Sea fields don't produce nearly enough for Europe as a whole. Add in the fact that most of the distribution network in Europe is geared towards supplies from Russia and the French (and Italian) propensity for rioting and striking at the drop of a hat and it's a gamble I'd take if I were Putin.
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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 07:55:44 PM »
It's not that big a risk. Sure, the UK and Norway would be fine, but the North Sea fields don't produce nearly enough for Europe as a whole. Add in the fact that most of the distribution network in Europe is geared towards supplies from Russia and the French (and Italian) propensity for rioting and striking at the drop of a hat and it's a gamble I'd take if I were Putin.

It's a risk, but then nothing ventured, nothing gained, and I tend to agree that it was a risk worth taking, and I'm certainly a lot more risk-averse than V. Putin is.

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2014, 12:11:56 AM »
It's not that big a risk. Sure, the UK and Norway would be fine, but the North Sea fields don't produce nearly enough for Europe as a whole. Add in the fact that most of the distribution network in Europe is geared towards supplies from Russia and the French (and Italian) propensity for rioting and striking at the drop of a hat and it's a gamble I'd take if I were Putin.


Importation of LNG from the United States is the only way.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324789504578382472643241056
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:14:12 AM by SPQR »

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2014, 01:29:14 AM »
Importation of LNG from the United States is the only way.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324789504578382472643241056


Not disagreeing, but I got one word for you: infrastructure.

Skip the fact there are physically not enough hulls to transport the amount of LNG needed. The Liberty ship program showed that the US can build tough as hell transports fast if they want to. There is still the problem of offloading.
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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 05:42:15 AM »
Not disagreeing, but I got one word for you: infrastructure.

Skip the fact there are physically not enough hulls to transport the amount of LNG needed. The Liberty ship program showed that the US can build tough as hell transports fast if they want to. There is still the problem of offloading.


EC,

You are incorrect. There are plenty of terminals to meet the needs as the map shows.




http://business.financialpost.com/2012/05/30/canada-must-act-fast-or-miss-lng-window-shell-ceo/fp0517-lng-terminals/


This is what an LNG Ship looks like.


The tower-based loading and/or offloading system includes a tower with a hose handling boom. The tower is located at the end of a pipe bridge that is connected to an on-shore LNG plant. The LNG carrier can moor close to the tower allowing allowing transfer of the LNG via the midship manifold.The tandem offloading system is based on existing practices as successfully used in crude-oil tandem offloading systems. The hawser system that connects the shuttle tanker to the FLNG vessel is based on a taut-hawser operation which is also used in the offloading system of Bluewater’s FPSOs. The tandem LNG transfer system includes hose reels in the Stern Loading System (SLS) that are located sufficiently high to allow a catenary hose configuration to the Bow Loading System (BLS) at the bow of the dedicated LNG carrier.

http://www.bluewater.com/products-technology/lng-loading-offloading-systems/

« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 06:18:56 AM by SPQR »

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 06:02:01 AM »
EC,

You are incorrect. There are plenty of terminals to meet the needs as the map shows.







This is what an LNG Ship looks like.


Link to offloading LNG:http://www.bluewater.com/products-technology/lng-loading-offloading-systems/


You have the capacity.

We don't. Well, other than Cyprus and Italy.
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SPQR

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 06:03:14 AM »
You have the capacity.

We don't. Well, other than Cyprus and Italy.


Anyways, Italy,UK Belgium,France,Italy,Greece,Netherlands,Portugal,Spain, and Turkey have terminals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LNG_terminals#Existing_regasification_terminals
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 06:26:49 AM by SPQR »

SPQR

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Re: NATO severs military, civilian ties with Russia
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 06:39:43 AM »
You have the capacity.

We don't. Well, other than Cyprus and Italy.

14 terminals seem enough for current needs


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