Two religious debates, One post (young earth, ark)

[mrclose]

I keep coming across two debates in many forums that atheists use to 'prove' that the scriptures are a myth!

One is Noah's Ark and it's inability to contain all of the animal life that the ark was said to have held.

The other is the Young Earth debate and how it conflicts with scientific evidence.

I have studied these two issues and how scripture actually lays out what I as a Christian believe is the truth.

First .. The young earth debate:

The young earther's seem to believe in an earth that is only around six thousand years old and I believe founded on a faulty misconception of the word (or length) of the biblical day as set forth in Genesis.


If you follow scripture you will read: "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth".

There is no reference (or time frame) as to when or how long before he created man that this happened.

The actual time though could be billions of years, we just don't know.
(It is however, the beginning.)

Scripture doesn't say how long each creative day is in Genesis Chapter 1 but only gives the order of creation.

Genesis Chapter 2 verse 4 describes all of the creative days as one day.

The seventh 'day' is described as God's day of rest.
(I take this to mean that God is not 'creating' at this time because .. I doubt that he is tired) 8)

Paul indicated that God was still in his day of rest when he referred to the earlier words of David (ps95: 7,8,11) and to Genesis 2:2 where David urged: "Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest".
(God's sabbath)

By Paul's time that day of rest was already thousands of years old.

My last reference as to a days length is at 2Pe 3:8 where Peter says: "one day is with God as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day".

I don't believe that Peter was saying God's day was actually a thousand years here, I think that he was indicating that God had no actual or true measurable length of time for him (God) as being a day .. and that God doesn't judge time as man does.
=====================

Now for the Ark controversy:

According to scripture the ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high.

A conservative calculation for the cubit is around 17.5 inches while some scholars believe it to be closer to 56 centimeters or 22 inches.

This puts the arks size at around 437 feet long, 72 feet wide by 43 feet high.

(A length to width proportion of 6 to 1 which is still used by naval architects)

There were two floors which gave added support and three decks equaling around 96,000 square feet.

Now for the amount of capacity.

Besides Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives, living creatures, of every sort of flesh, two of each 'kind' were to be brought on board.
(male and female)

It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family 'kinds'- the horse and cow to mention only two.

With this thinking, some scientists have said that had there been 43 'kinds' of mammals, 74 'kinds' of birds and 10 'kinds' of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the number of species that we have today.

This is only speculation and seems restrictive since sources such as the Encyclopedia Americana indicates that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals.

However, over 60 percent of these are insects.

 Breaking the figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside of the ark.

5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises which would have also remained outside the ark.

Some scientists estimate that there are only about 290 species of land animals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats.

If you wish to do the mathematics you can see where the ark was large enough to handle the amount of 'species' that would carry on to today.
(I have a headache in just researching the scriptures and getting this overly long post ready for posting)

I know, some will say what about the dinosaurs but since that isn't mentioned in scripture .. my guess is that they didn't live during the time of Noah.


These are just my thoughts, simple as they may be and not all encompassing for sure but .. I do believe a lack of study is why I think the young earther's and ark deniers are wrong and why some Christians are losing what should be .. a winning argument.

Other Christians can probably add more than what I have said here because .. there is so much more!

I apologize if I have upset any of my friends on the forum.

(any spelling errors are strictly mine)

[Chieftain]

I would add that the great flood of Noah could indeed be related to the "Black Sea Deluge Theory" which postulates that the Bosphorus was formed by the failure of the land bridge between the present Aegean Sea and the Black Sea.  Exploration of the bottom of the Black Sea has shown many old buildings and other architecture that was inundated quickly by flooding, leading to the theory that the catastrophic formation of the Bosphorus and consequent flooding of the lowlands that now make up the Black Sea could indeed be related to the story of Noah.

There is also undeniable evidence of the presence of man on earth in some shape or form for between 30 and 40 million years, depending on whom you talk to.  We share common DNA with starfish...mankind evolved on planet earth...but who is to say what hand really guides the theories we call "evolution"??

Good post....Mods may want to move this to the Boxing Ring though, depending on the responses.....

[Oceander]

I would add that the great flood of Noah could indeed be related to the "Black Sea Deluge Theory" which postulates that the Bosphorus was formed by the failure of the land bridge between the present Aegean Sea and the Black Sea.  Exploration of the bottom of the Black Sea has shown many old buildings and other architecture that was inundated quickly by flooding, leading to the theory that the catastrophic formation of the Bosphorus and consequent flooding of the lowlands that now make up the Black Sea could indeed be related to the story of Noah.

There is also undeniable evidence of the presence of man on earth in some shape or form for between 30 and 40 million years, depending on whom you talk to.  We share common DNA with starfish...mankind evolved on planet earth...but who is to say what hand really guides the theories we call "evolution"??

Good post....Mods may want to move this to the Boxing Ring though, depending on the responses.....

Isn't there also a theory related to the alleged reflooding of the Mediterranean basin?

[truth_seeker]

The problem I have with this:

When needed Bible literalists will insist no interpretation is needed; the Bible says precisely what it means to say.

Then some turn around, and suggest changing the length of a day is okay.

Just some of the logic for a belief system which depends on a Great Creator, perhaps without mans' folk tales.

[NavyCanDo]

That is a wonderful narrative and collection of peoples theories of how it all could have been possible, and not just ancient folklore that explains a massive flood.   I don't know about the timeline of creation and quite frankly I don't really care because it doesn't shake my faith either way. But reading Genesis 6 I do believe God had good reason to hit the reset button because of fallen angels lust for mortal girls having children with them creating a race of beings known as The Nephilm which are said to be not only giants but who became heroes and renown amongst the mortals. In other words demigods who took the place of the Creator in the hearts of men, and the wickedness grew and the wicked multiplied.    And it was more than just hitting a reset button, flooding the place out and starting over, but God was demonstrating his redemptive spirit and longing to restore the relationship between man and himself. A story that repeated itself over and over again throughout scripture, including when he sent his only Son and his death on the cross.