Author Topic: Criminals don't ask permission  (Read 400 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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Criminals don't ask permission
« on: March 25, 2014, 10:52:32 AM »
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline EC

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 05:36:28 PM »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 08:51:37 PM »
Common core is a substantial improvement over the malarky that passed as educational "standards" in most of the states.

Offline speekinout

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 09:01:43 PM »
Common core is a substantial improvement over the malarky that passed as educational "standards" in most of the states.

That's what I thought until I saw some of the questions on a Common Core test. Now I'm convinced that the only solution to the education problem is school vouchers. Give every kid a voucher every year - and it can be for less than the current public schools now pay per student - and let the parent(s) and kid choose.

Online Oceander

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 09:03:48 PM »
That's what I thought until I saw some of the questions on a Common Core test. Now I'm convinced that the only solution to the education problem is school vouchers. Give every kid a voucher every year - and it can be for less than the current public schools now pay per student - and let the parent(s) and kid choose.

What questions in particular?  So far I don't have any objections to any of the questions I've seen - ELA or math - on the Common Core tests my daughter is taking.  My only real problem is the stupid way NYS is implementing it, and even then it doesn't really affect my daughter because, thank God, the school she was at before was apparently teaching to the same level as the common core standards so she's relatively well prepared.

Offline speekinout

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 09:23:52 PM »
What questions in particular?  So far I don't have any objections to any of the questions I've seen - ELA or math - on the Common Core tests my daughter is taking.  My only real problem is the stupid way NYS is implementing it, and even then it doesn't really affect my daughter because, thank God, the school she was at before was apparently teaching to the same level as the common core standards so she's relatively well prepared.

I had problems with both literature and math. I particularly disliked the idea that students aren't actually required to read what used to be good books. Here's an example of what I find objectionable -
http://www.christianpost.com/news/common-core-killing-nations-great-literature-scholar-argues-112435/

If you have an explanation of why this is acceptable, I'd love to hear it.

Online Oceander

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 09:35:06 PM »
I had problems with both literature and math. I particularly disliked the idea that students aren't actually required to read what used to be good books. Here's an example of what I find objectionable -
http://www.christianpost.com/news/common-core-killing-nations-great-literature-scholar-argues-112435/

If you have an explanation of why this is acceptable, I'd love to hear it.

First, because you have to learn to walk before you can run and kids in school, up through high school, are still learning to walk; trying to impress them with the classics is more or less like throwing pearls before swine.

Second, there is absolutely nothing in the standards that says a school cannot bring the classics in as well, provided that the standards themselves are met.  This ties in with one of the great misperceptions about Common Core.  The Common Core per se is a set of standards, nothing more, a set of benchmarks indicating what sort of skills kids are expected to have mastered after completing a particular grade.  The grief seems to come from some of the curriculae, but that is just one proposed way of achieving those standards; the curriculae are not the standards.

Quite honestly, I went to public school in the Fairfax, VA school system back in the 80s, when it was definitely one of the better school systems in the country.  In high school I started in the regular classes and ended up in many of the AP level courses.  The regular English classes were depressing; most of the kids weren't very interested and weren't that good, they had competency, but didn't get much out of the material - and didn't really want to - in one class we read Old Man and the Sea and no one really seemed to cotton on to why it's considered a classic.  In senior year I took AP English and the difference was quite noticeable.

The bottom line here is that the standards that define the minimum competency that all students must achieve has to take that reality into account; it would simply be ridiculous if those kids in the regular English class were not allowed to graduate simply because they hadn't read, or appreciated, Old Man and the Sea.  Much better that we make sure that all of them can actually read and write correct English - which is something we are currently unable to do given how many kids end up graduating and going to college who need remedial English courses before they can even be allowed to take Freshman English.

Offline speekinout

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Re: Criminals don't ask permission
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 10:08:06 PM »
First, because you have to learn to walk before you can run and kids in school, up through high school, are still learning to walk; trying to impress them with the classics is more or less like throwing pearls before swine.

That's really scary! High school kids should not be "learning to walk"; they should be running and dancing and leaping. They should be able to read the classics by eighth grade. After that should be teaching them to know the difference between good literature and internet blogging or whatever.
I do know that hasn't been happening in recent years, but the point of educational standards is to get back to that. It's appalling that high school graduates should need remedial courses before they can do college level work, and it's appalling that we have to encourage so many to go to college just because they didn't get much education in the first 12 years. And it's even worse that there are so many non-educational courses in college curricula.


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