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Offline happyg

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« on: March 19, 2014, 06:47:57 AM »

Offline Gazoo

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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 07:23:23 AM »
I can't believe this happened. I remember back in the 90's there were so many carriers at the carrier pier they decided to split them up. I believe the Nimitz was sent to Washington State. Back then NOB Norfolk was a happening place. Nowadays where it used to be pier after pier after pier of Naval ships; I saw commercial shipping freighters.

What idiotic fool would do this?
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Offline Gazoo

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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 07:27:04 AM »
This looks like BC, before Clinton.



Back then it was the Indy,Kennedy,Nimitz,America,Ike
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Online rangerrebew

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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 08:47:21 AM »
Is one of them named "U.S.S. Arizona" by any chance? :dropjaw:
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Offline PzLdr

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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 03:45:46 PM »
That';s an old picture. I've seen it on the internet before.
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Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 05:21:43 PM »
That';s an old picture. I've seen it on the internet before.

December 2012

Offline Howie66

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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 09:02:18 PM »
I can't believe this happened. I remember back in the 90's there were so many carriers at the carrier pier they decided to split them up. I believe the Nimitz was sent to Washington State. Back then NOB Norfolk was a happening place. Nowadays where it used to be pier after pier after pier of Naval ships; I saw commercial shipping freighters.

What idiotic fool would do this?

Rhetorical question, right?
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Offline Howie66

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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 09:03:44 PM »
Is one of them named "U.S.S. Arizona" by any chance? :dropjaw:

That's what I was thinking.

Talk about a disaster of epic proportions.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery.  But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes:  If you bleep with me, I'll kill you all.

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders (Note: Mattis did NOT say "BLEEP". He threw the F Bomb)

I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

Offline Atomic Cow

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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 09:06:53 PM »
If it was December 2012, Enterprise had already been deactivated.
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 05:00:01 AM »
I believe that the USS Enterprise and the USS America are supposed to be scrapped. I know that the the USS Forrestal is to be scrapped and it was sold for one penny.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 05:23:22 AM by SPQR »

Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 08:45:27 AM »
I believe that the USS Enterprise and the USS America are supposed to be scrapped. I know that the the USS Forrestal is to be scrapped and it was sold for one penny.

Actually, Enterprise is being scrapped, but USS America was used several years ago for explosives testing and was sunk at sea in the Atlantic at the conclusion of the tests.


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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 01:30:42 AM »
Actually, Enterprise is being scrapped, but USS America was used several years ago for explosives testing and was sunk at sea in the Atlantic at the conclusion of the tests.

I do not understand that these aircraft carriers are given to specific allies around the world. They have been well maintained and proven combat ready. Its billions of tax dollars to build them and its millions of dollars to scrap them
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 01:34:14 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2014, 01:47:03 AM »
I do not understand that these aircraft carriers are given to specific allies around the would. They have been well maintained and proven combat ready.

It's not that. Chieftan knows these systems WAY better, my sum total of carrier experience is a courtesy tour and a couple of landings on them, along with a decent breakfast. They eat well.

But a carrier is unique. You can figure, if a crew can handle a frigate, they can handle a destroyer, and not be too far off the mark. A carrier is so far from a regular ship it is untrue. Giving a carrier to an ally is a bit like grabbing the guy that runs a fishing boat and giving him a nuclear submarine. Sure, he may be able to make it go and stop, but there are a million and one things he'd not know.

To give you an analogy from my own experience - I could teach you to fly an attack copter in about 5 hours, assuming you have decent hand / eye co-ordination. Actually going into combat with it though? About a year - those things are expensive as hell and even more temperamental. That is a single pilot system. A carrier is orders of magnitude harder to run. The lead time for training would be ridiculous, unless the ally has a carrier fleet of their own.

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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 02:10:07 AM »
It's not that. Chieftan knows these systems WAY better, my sum total of carrier experience is a courtesy tour and a couple of landings on them, along with a decent breakfast. They eat well.

But a carrier is unique. You can figure, if a crew can handle a frigate, they can handle a destroyer, and not be too far off the mark. A carrier is so far from a regular ship it is untrue. Giving a carrier to an ally is a bit like grabbing the guy that runs a fishing boat and giving him a nuclear submarine. Sure, he may be able to make it go and stop, but there are a million and one things he'd not know.

To give you an analogy from my own experience - I could teach you to fly an attack copter in about 5 hours, assuming you have decent hand / eye co-ordination. Actually going into combat with it though? About a year - those things are expensive as hell and even more temperamental. That is a single pilot system. A carrier is orders of magnitude harder to run. The lead time for training would be ridiculous, unless the ally has a carrier fleet of their own.

You can train them. The British and the French all have or had carrier experience in there arsenals. The French currently has the Charles De Galle.She is the tenth French aircraft carrier, the first French nuclear-powered surface vessel, and the first and so far only nuclear-powered carrier completed outside of the United States Navy. The British has the HMS Illustrious and HMS Queen Elizabeth , Italy has the Giuseppe Garibaldi and the Cavour .The Japanese seems to be moving in that direction with the Izumo.The change can't be that great
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 02:23:52 AM by SPQR »

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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 02:44:37 AM »
You can train them. The British and the French all have or had carrier experience in there arsenals. The French currently has the Charles De Galle.She is the tenth French aircraft carrier, the first French nuclear-powered surface vessel, and the first and so far only nuclear-powered carrier completed outside of the United States Navy. The British has the HMS Illustrious and HMS Queen Elizabeth , Italy has the Giuseppe Garibaldi and the Cavour .The Japanese seems to be moving in that direction with the Izumo.The change can't be that great

Other nations routinely sell their aircraft carriers. I would like to point out that the British Government sold an aircraft carrier(HMS Vengeance) Brazilian aircraft carrier Minas Gerais to Brazil.The Royal Navy decommissioned HMS Invincible and her sistership Ark Royal as part of a wider round of austerity measures, listing them for disposal alongside unused printer cartridges. The Russians has both sold an aircraft carrier to China and India
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 02:55:43 AM by SPQR »

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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 06:04:37 AM »
Other nations routinely sell their aircraft carriers. I would like to point out that the British Government sold an aircraft carrier(HMS Vengeance) Brazilian aircraft carrier Minas Gerais to Brazil.The Royal Navy decommissioned HMS Invincible and her sistership Ark Royal as part of a wider round of austerity measures, listing them for disposal alongside unused printer cartridges. The Russians has both sold an aircraft carrier to China and India

Brazilian aircraft carrier Minas Gerais was eventually decommissioned but it does not negate the fact the selling of aircraft carriers does happen.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 06:05:19 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 06:28:59 AM »
Of course it happens - but the lead time for learning to use them effectively is amazingly long. The basic ship bits - not a problem. Engines, reactors, desalination plant, navigation - it's pretty much all the same, except you are running a small floating island rather than a ship. Matter of scale more than anything.

But the hundreds of other specialties? They take time to learn, and even more time to learn to work together. Think the ones I admire most after the pilots are the Deck Officers and crew. You see the guy and he's rock bleep steady in the middle of a hurricane, just standing there with his paddles to direct you in. Don't forget - I flew things that could stop in mid air, hover and go straight up and down. Not the sort of luxury your average pilot of a fighter gets. You land and you are immediately moved and lashed down - a 27 ton chopper does not fare well loose on a moving deck.
You got this calm, slightly bored voice in your ear the whole time - some guy who is processing dozens of inputs per second from radar, the weather team, threat assessment, the mechanical crew and the helm to make sure that when you land you hit steel and not sea.

It's a whole next level of skill. Takes a long time to learn.  :laugh:
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Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 09:15:24 AM »
I do not understand that these aircraft carriers are given to specific allies around the world. They have been well maintained and proven combat ready. Its billions of tax dollars to build them and its millions of dollars to scrap them

It is because the ships are no longer modern enough to use safely or economically.  Enterprise's engineering and reactor spaces are heavily contaminated and so outdated as to be completely obsolete.  Same goes with our older conventionally powered carriers, which are heavily contaminated with all kinds of debris, and packed with tons of asbestos insulation.

Yes, it is expensive to scrap a carrier, but it is more expensive to maintain it as a museum piece.

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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 07:06:24 PM »
It is because the ships are no longer modern enough to use safely or economically.  Enterprise's engineering and reactor spaces are heavily contaminated and so outdated as to be completely obsolete.  Same goes with our older conventionally powered carriers, which are heavily contaminated with all kinds of debris, and packed with tons of asbestos insulation.

Yes, it is expensive to scrap a carrier, but it is more expensive to maintain it as a museum piece.

I see your point


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