Author Topic: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.  (Read 8185 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2014, 02:46:40 am »
That is just your opinion. I happen to disagree. Here is another math problem, that can be figured out, but is a waste of time.



Actually, no, it's not just my opinion.  It's also the considered opinion of my daughter's teachers, including her teacher from 3d grade who said that he intentionally uses materials like this for the very same reasons I've already described, ad nauseam, and who also said that in his experience different kids learn the same thing in different ways and that while some kids are fine with the rote memorization of substraction, others are not and using something like this helps those kids who have problems with the traditional rote memorization routine.  It's also the opinion of the parents of some of the kids who were in my daughter's classes.  And this was in a Catholic school before Common Core was adopted by NY.  It's also the opinion of educators in Ontario back in 2006, as evidenced by the homework sample on pp. 54-55 of this teachers' workbook: http://www.eworkshop.on.ca/edu/resources/guides/NSN_vol_2_Addition_Subtraction.pdf  It's also the opinion of various schools of thought on pedagogy (pun intended).  A small example (I really don't feel like preparing research for a thesis on pedagogy right now) is this webpage:  http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/math.htm  which includes as one of the tools that's useful having children come up with their own procedures for answering a question.  Well, that is precisely what this homework question here is doing.

So no, it's not just my opinion.

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2014, 02:49:11 am »
A "union" teacher. /s
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2014, 02:53:39 am »
I wonder how those of us who were not educated via Common Core ever managed to read, write or get a successful job........... sarc

Look around at the world and you'll get your answer:  a lot of people can't.  Ever hear of math-phobia?  The fear of math?  That is only exacerbated when one is subjected to a strictly traditional method of teaching math where there is only one right way to find the answer - not the emphasis on procedure, not result; there is always only one right answer, and Common Core doesn't do away with that - and where the "right" way is through drill and rote memorization.

Kids drop out of school for many reasons, one such being because they don't understand what's going on and they feel stupid because they don't "get" the way the teacher is telling them to do problems.  What's the solution?  Doubling down on the same old that failed?  Or why not try being a real teacher, thinking about how this or that particular kid thinks, think about how kids go about learning things when they don't think they are, and then tailor an approach that is more likely to play to each individual kid's strengths?

It's amazing - and sad - how so many people think that trying to teach as many kids as possible as much as possible by developing and applying a bunch of different strategies and techniques is worthy of only "sarc".

Offline andy58-in-nh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,753
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2014, 03:04:34 am »
I always thought that one of the great objects of teaching was to simplify the complex.

Apparently I was wrong.

It appears instead that the object of teaching is to complicate the simple.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2014, 03:05:04 am »
http://portwashington-news.com/parents-push-back-against-common-core/

The Port Washington Board of Education had been debating the merits or lack thereof of the common core standards and found that when combined with more stringent testing standards students’ scores have come up short.

snip.....

strategies,” Greenstein said.

“I am the mother of a fourth grader in the Port Washington School District,
” Deborah Abramson Brooks said. “She gets frustrated by some of the assignments because the questions are convoluted.”


snip........

The problems with the common core include its being “developed and pushed along by people who have more interest in business than they do education,” Abramson Brooks said. “They also don’t include much of a well-balanced curriculum, with their main focus on English and math.”

“If the point of elementary education is to teach children how to think creatively, problem-solve and learn from their mistakes,” asked East Williston parent Christine Cozzolino, “how can we expect our children to be innovators when they are subject to scripted lessons and the rigorous testing of the common core?”

snip...

Parents angrily questioned the one-size-fits-all approach that seems to underlie the standards—the “common” in common core.

snip....

Cheers and jeers were the norm, and especially rose when Westbury Teachers Association Christine Corbett stepped up to discuss students losing interest in school because of rigid testing regime.


snip......

Another key issue was teacher evaluations. Twenty percent of a teacher’s or principal’s rating is linked to state test scores. The state reported a 40 percent drop in test scores of third through eighth-grade in the new roll-out of the English and math curriculum.

snip............

“Eighty percent of the evaluation is determined locally through collective bargaining,” King said. “For the 80 percent of teachers who don’t teach students in grades three through eight ELA and math, the gross portion is determined by the school districts.”

snip........

Outside the forum, Jeanette Deutermann, founder of the Facebook group “Long Island Opt Out,” now more than 12,000 members strong, was among the protesters. According to Deutermann, data collected through inBloom catalogs an individual’s information from birth to age 20 and includes not just names, but address, birthplace, economic status, race, ethnicity, disabilities, and other information that some parents may wish to keep private.

“Data mining is across the board all kinds of wrong,” Deutermann said. “They want the data and that’s what is driving the entire system.”

The challenge for school districts is to keep families from opting out, which impacts state and federal funding. With groups like Deutermann’s gaining steam, that challenge is growing.

++++++++++++++++++++++




�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2014, 03:05:21 am »
That is just your opinion. I happen to disagree. Here is another math problem, that can be figured out, but is a waste of time.



Are you saying you can't figure that out?  That is a very clear demonstation of what's really going on when one "borrows" from a higher digit in order to subtract a larger digit from a smaller digit.

Perhaps putting the problem into column form will make it sufficiently obvious:



                                   40
                               -     8
                                 -----

To a kid who's just learning math, this looks insoluble - they haven't been taught about negative numbers so since 8 is larger than 0 the answer cannot exist.

If you just explain to the kid "well, just borrow a 1 from the tens digit up top and move it over to the ones digit, and you'll be able to do the subtraction" states the method, but doesn't explain it in the least.

On the other hand, if you diagram out exactly what really happens when one "borrows a 1 from the tens digit" then it becomes much clearer what's going on and why one does it that way.  And that is precisely what this homework assignment you put up does.

As an aside, I will point out that the reason why kids can deal with the problem of 10 - 8, or, in column subtraction

                             10
                           -   8
                           -----

is that they have ten fingers and so they can work that one out as if ten were really a single digit number instead of being a two digit number.



Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2014, 03:05:42 am »
I always thought that one of the great objects of teaching was to simplify the complex.

Apparently I was wrong.

It appears instead that the object of teaching is to complicate the simple.

Mark my words - Common Core is going to lead to more school drop outs at earlier ages.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2014, 03:09:19 am »
I always thought that one of the great objects of teaching was to simplify the complex.

Apparently I was wrong.

It appears instead that the object of teaching is to complicate the simple.



You're correct as to the object of teaching; but you're incorrect in the conclusion that this material is complicating the simple.  It is precisely simplifying the complicated.  You may not think that doing two-digit subtraction is complicated, but that's primarily because you've been doing it since you were in kindergarten; as such, you almost certainly no longer appreciate just how daunting it is for a kid to look at something like 40 - 8 =  ?  which seems so simple to you.  Part and parcel of teaching is having the adults - the teachers - regain an understanding of that kid's view so that they can then apply their own expertise to walking the kid through how to solve using what the kid already knows and using tools and techniques the kid is comfortable with - like counting on your fingers.

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,820
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2014, 03:10:22 am »
Quote
Are you saying you can't figure that out?  That is a very clear demonstation of what's really going on when one "borrows" from a higher digit in order to subtract a larger digit from a smaller digit.

OF COURSE, I can figure it out. I'm 66 years old, not a 7 year old. Why all that work for one problem, when it can be done in a few seconds? Like Andy said, simple is smarter.

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2014, 03:10:32 am »
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/new-york-common-core-teachers-schools-education-102614.html

New York teachers turn on Common Core


   
One of the biggest groups of educators in the country says the program's not working.

By STEPHANIE SIMON | 1/26/14 10:12 AM EST Updated: 1/27/14 12:04 PM EST

The board of the New York state teachers union this weekend unanimously withdrew its support for the Common Core standards as they have been implemented
— a major blow for Common Core advocates who have been touting support from teachers as proof that the standards will succeed in classrooms nationwide.

“We’ll have to be the first to say it’s failed,” said Richard Iannuzzi, president of New York State United Teachers.

Iannuzzi said he has talked with union leaders in other states who may follow suit. “We’ve been in conversations where we’re all saying our members don’t see this going down a path that improves teaching and learning. We’re struggling with how to deal with it,” he said.

The board also unanimously voted no confidence in New York Education Commissioner John King Jr. and urged the state’s Board of Regents to remove him from office.

The move on Common Core put the New York union at odds with the national teachers unions, which have steadfastly promoted the new academic standards for math and language arts instruction, now rolling out in classrooms nationwide.

Amid fierce and growing opposition to the standards — fanned by conservative political organizations — promoters of Common Core have counted on teachers to be their best ambassadors and to reassure parents and students that the guidelines will lead to more thoughtful, rigorous instruction.

Now, one of the biggest groups of educators in the country is on record saying it’s not working.

The NYSUT, which represents about 600,000 teachers, retired teachers and school professionals — and accounts for 15 percent of national teacher union membership — is demanding “major course corrections” before it can consider supporting the standards again.

It wants more time for teachers to review the Common Core lessons the state has been promoting, and it’s demanding more input on whether they are grade-appropriate. Parents and teachers have complained that the standards push the youngest kids too fast, demanding so much work from kindergarteners that there’s little time for the play that’s deemed essential for young children’s development. On the other end of the scale, they have complained that the high-school math trajectory laid out by the Common Core leaves out key math concepts and does not push top students to take calculus.

The union is also demanding that all questions on the new Common Core exams be released so teachers can review them and use them to shape instruction.

Students across New York performed miserably on the first round of Common Core exams, given last spring. The NYSUT is insisting on a three-year moratorium on the high-stakes consequences attached to the exams; the union argues that no teachers should lose their jobs and no students should lose their chance at graduation because of poor performance on the tests during a transition period.


Iannuzzi said the union still believes “the potential is there” for the standards to succeed, but said that won’t happen unless the state brings everything to a halt and effectively starts from scratch.

In response, Commissioner King issued a statement suggesting flexibility; he said he would work with the legislature, governor and Board of Regents to “make necessary adjustments and modifications to the implementation of the Common Core.” But he did not back away from his staunch support of the guidelines, saying that “now is not the time to weaken standards for teaching and learning.” The statement, issued jointly with Board of Regents Chancellor Merryl Tisch, continued: “Our students are counting on us to help them develop the skills and knowledge they need to succeed in life. The higher standards the Common Core sets will help them do just that.”

The Common Core standards are a central plank in President Barack Obama’s education agenda.

They were developed by nonprofits and organizations representing states, with funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, but have been heavily promoted by the White House and by Education Secretary Arne Duncan.



In Obama’s first years in office, the administration gave states financial and policy incentives to adopt the standards; 45 states and the District of Columbia quickly did so, with little public debate. But as the standards have been introduced into classrooms — in some cases accompanied by notable shifts in math instruction and a much more heavy emphasis on non-fiction texts in English classes — parents have raised questions and conservative advocacy groups have jumped on board with warnings of federal overreach and a loss of local control.

Several states, including Alaska, Pennsylvania, Florida and Georgia, have backed away from prior commitments to use new Common Core exams funded by the federal government to assess their students’ progress and measure their achievement against kids in other states. Other states are going further still and considering revoking the standards altogether.

“We don’t ever want to educate South Carolina children like they educate California children,” South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley recently told a gathering of Republican women. “We want to educate South Carolina children on South Carolina standards, not anyone else’s standards.” She urged the legislature to overturn the Common Core standards, promising she would sign such a bill the moment it came to her desk.

Republican Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana and Scott Walker of Wisconsin have also signaled their distaste for centralized standards. “Told attendees at state education convention that academic standards should be set by people in WI, not DC,” Walker tweeted on Friday.

The anxiety has touched Democratic leaders, too. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo recently said he has concerns about the way the standards have been implemented in his state. And at a hearing in Albany last week, Commissioner King fended off a barrage of tough questions and angry complaints about Common Core from legislators in both parties. “Hit the delay button!” state Sen. George Latimer, a Democrat, demanded, banging on the table for emphasis.

Opponents of Common Core said they see the NYSUT vote as a turning point, indicating that the protest movement has expanded beyond parents and political activists.

“Were this a small union no one would take notice,” said Jim Stergios, executive director of the Pioneer Institute, a think tank that has been active in opposing the Common Core. “But the size and breadth of NYSUT tells even the casual observer that the wheels are coming off Common Core in NY.” The vote, he said, “clearly gives lie to view that teachers support the whole Common Core apparatus. The fact that NYSUT cuts across over a thousand local unions speaks to how widespread opposition has become.”

Carol Burris, an award-winning principal in New York who has been outspoken in opposition to the new standards, called the vote “both courageous and significant.”


The standards have been promoted as well by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable, as well as by prominent education reformers from both parties, including former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Michelle Rhee, the former chief of Washington, D.C., schools.

Supporters of the Common Core have expressed frustration at the mounting opposition, saying the standards have become a convenient scapegoat for anything anyone doesn’t like about education today.

“We’re in an environment where anything anyone thinks is wrong, people think [that’s] part of Common Core,” said Michael Cohen, president of Achieve, one of the nonprofits that helped write the Common Core. In an interview last fall, Cohen said he was counting on teachers to be “credible advocates” for Common Core in every state. Teachers, he said, would be able to parry the conspiracy theories and “get the argument grounded again.”



�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,820
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2014, 03:13:48 am »
My daughter-in-law, who lives in New York, has taught school for nearly 20 years. She said the what's worse than the kids having learn complicated procedures are the directions she is given to for teaching them. The parents are complaining, as well as the teachers who complain about teaching it.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2014, 03:14:10 am »
http://portwashington-news.com/parents-push-back-against-common-core/

The Port Washington Board of Education had been debating the merits or lack thereof of the common core standards and found that when combined with more stringent testing standards students’ scores have come up short.

snip.....

strategies,” Greenstein said.

“I am the mother of a fourth grader in the Port Washington School District,
” Deborah Abramson Brooks said. “She gets frustrated by some of the assignments because the questions are convoluted.”


snip........

The problems with the common core include its being “developed and pushed along by people who have more interest in business than they do education,” Abramson Brooks said. “They also don’t include much of a well-balanced curriculum, with their main focus on English and math.”

“If the point of elementary education is to teach children how to think creatively, problem-solve and learn from their mistakes,” asked East Williston parent Christine Cozzolino, “how can we expect our children to be innovators when they are subject to scripted lessons and the rigorous testing of the common core?”

snip...

Parents angrily questioned the one-size-fits-all approach that seems to underlie the standards—the “common” in common core.

snip....

Cheers and jeers were the norm, and especially rose when Westbury Teachers Association Christine Corbett stepped up to discuss students losing interest in school because of rigid testing regime.


snip......

Another key issue was teacher evaluations. Twenty percent of a teacher’s or principal’s rating is linked to state test scores. The state reported a 40 percent drop in test scores of third through eighth-grade in the new roll-out of the English and math curriculum.

snip............

“Eighty percent of the evaluation is determined locally through collective bargaining,” King said. “For the 80 percent of teachers who don’t teach students in grades three through eight ELA and math, the gross portion is determined by the school districts.”

snip........

Outside the forum, Jeanette Deutermann, founder of the Facebook group “Long Island Opt Out,” now more than 12,000 members strong, was among the protesters. According to Deutermann, data collected through inBloom catalogs an individual’s information from birth to age 20 and includes not just names, but address, birthplace, economic status, race, ethnicity, disabilities, and other information that some parents may wish to keep private.

“Data mining is across the board all kinds of wrong,” Deutermann said. “They want the data and that’s what is driving the entire system.”

The challenge for school districts is to keep families from opting out, which impacts state and federal funding. With groups like Deutermann’s gaining steam, that challenge is growing.

++++++++++++++++++++++







The problem with NY is not the standards but the way that they've been implemented and the way that the new tests have been dumped - like bombs from a B-52 - on teachers, parents, and kids, without giving anyone any time to shift gears and adjust to the new - better - standards.


Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2014, 03:15:08 am »

You're correct as to the object of teaching; but you're incorrect in the conclusion that this material is complicating the simple.  It is precisely simplifying the complicated.  You may not think that doing two-digit subtraction is complicated, but that's primarily because you've been doing it since you were in kindergarten; as such, you almost certainly no longer appreciate just how daunting it is for a kid to look at something like 40 - 8 =  ?  which seems so simple to you.  Part and parcel of teaching is having the adults - the teachers - regain an understanding of that kid's view so that they can then apply their own expertise to walking the kid through how to solve using what the kid already knows and using tools and techniques the kid is comfortable with - like counting on your fingers.

You are looking at this from the standpoint of a 50-year-old (plus or minus) man who delights in fidding with math equations etc., not from the standpoint of a 4 or 5-year old.  Simple is always better than complicated, you loose too many students when you start making it complicated and that equates to more drop out students and ever-lowering overall education in this country.   Under Common Core the bright kids are held back and the not-so-bright kids are left totally behind... it's a one-size-fits all and we are not all one-size fits all in life. Each student and each person is individual and a good teacher looks at them individually and lets the smarter kids go ahead while he or she works with the kids who are struggling.  Not every child has a father at home to spend hours helping them with their math homework.. some are lucky to have a parent home in the evening at all.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2014, 03:23:19 am »
OF COURSE, I can figure it out. I'm 66 years old, not a 7 year old. Why all that work for one problem, when it can be done in a few seconds? Like Andy said, simple is smarter.

Why all the extra steps?  Because you've totally forgotten what it's like to be a 5 or 6 year old staring up at that problem and feeling totally at sea because you know you can't subtract 8 from 0 and you don't have enough fingers or toes to count on.  Because you've become so accustomed to doing it mentally without going through each step individually that you've forgotten that it's actually a bit of a complicated thing to do, a complicated thing that can only be simplified by breaking it down into small steps.

As he said, teaching is about simplifying the complicated, and that is exactly what this homework problem is doing:  it's simplifying a complicated subject by breaking it down into each individual step and explaining what's going on in detail.  Simply drilling kids on "this is how you do it, and we're going to practice until you're blue in the face" isn't teaching, it's drilling.

The fact of the matter is, when you do column subtraction and borrow a 1 from one digit and carry it over to a lower place digit, you are implicitly doing exactly what that homework problem is showing:  you're taking advantage of the fact that 40 = 30 + 10 and the associative property of math to take the problem of 40 - 8 = ?, turn it into the intermediate step of 30 + (10 - 8) = ?, reducing it to 30 + (2) = ?, and arriving at the answer 32.

And the only reason this works is because the number system we use is base-10 - i.e., the decimal system.

As the old saying goes, a trip of a thousand miles begins with a single step.  You and I, having made this trip a countless number of times, need only step from start to finish without contemplating the middle; a 5 year old who's embarking on this trip for the first time ever needs to take each and every step between start and finish.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2014, 03:27:01 am »
You are looking at this from the standpoint of a 50-year-old (plus or minus) man who delights in fidding with math equations etc., not from the standpoint of a 4 or 5-year old.  Simple is always better than complicated, you loose too many students when you start making it complicated and that equates to more drop out students and ever-lowering overall education in this country.   Under Common Core the bright kids are held back and the not-so-bright kids are left totally behind... it's a one-size-fits all and we are not all one-size fits all in life. Each student and each person is individual and a good teacher looks at them individually and lets the smarter kids go ahead while he or she works with the kids who are struggling.  Not every child has a father at home to spend hours helping them with their math homework.. some are lucky to have a parent home in the evening at all.

With all due respect, the major problem here is that you, and most of the others, are looking at this from the perspective of an adult who can do simple subtraction in her (or his) head implicitly without having to go through the actual steps of which that problem is comprised.

I am trying (so far in vain) to explain from the perspective of a 5 or 6 year old, why it is important to explain all of these intermediate steps in doing subtraction.  It's important because it's only by understanding why you "borrow a 1 from the 4" in that problem that you will really be able to grasp what's going on when you do this sort of subtraction, and you can take that understanding and apply it more broadly to other subtraction questions, such as subtracting a two digit number from a three digit number, where each digit in the two-digit number is larger than the corresponding digit in the three-digit number.

Offline ABX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2014, 03:27:27 am »
I am coming at this from a completely different perspective, being in adult education. One of my biggest challenges is working on programs that bring adults in the workforce up to corporate America's standards- and math is very much a challenge.

These problems seem very simple to me (the first one especially) but what is severely lacking it seems is the teachers and curriculum developer's real understanding of the method in order to explain it clearly on the worksheets.

The second one in this thread is a perfect example of a simple concept horribly explained (Oceander did a good job). One of the oldest and best tools for math, even complex number addition and subtraction, is the abacus. It has been used for thousands of years and is still used in offices all over China. You can do number calculations extremely quickly with those and it simplifies the concept of large number addition and subtraction to something even one who has never added or subtracted above 2 digits can do with ease.  The second concept above SHOULD explain it like how one would use an abacus. Everyone here would get it in a heart beat.

This comes around to one of the big problems with Common Core. You have a single, 'common' curriculum development with no checks and balances and no local control. Some college hipster with a lot of letters behind his name is probably hired to write these lessons and he cares more about showing off some new concept than he does in clear explanations that produce results.

If there were local control of the curriculum with parents and boards choosing multiple suppliers and always looking for the best, the different curriculum development firms would be clamoring over each other to produce better and better results. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of checks and balances against how the curriculum is delivered, each testing what works best for the audience who is buying it. It would naturally evolve into better education.

Instead we have are trying to evolve education by mating clones.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 03:28:07 am by AbaraXas »

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71,613
  • Gender: Female
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2014, 03:31:08 am »
I am coming at this from a completely different perspective, being in adult education. One of my biggest challenges is working on programs that bring adults in the workforce up to corporate America's standards- and math is very much a challenge.

These problems seem very simple to me (the first one especially) but what is severely lacking it seems is the teachers and curriculum developer's real understanding of the method in order to explain it clearly on the worksheets.

The second one in this thread is a perfect example of a simple concept horribly explained (Oceander did a good job). One of the oldest and best tools for math, even complex number addition and subtraction, is the abacus. It has been used for thousands of years and is still used in offices all over China. You can do number calculations extremely quickly with those and it simplifies the concept of large number addition and subtraction to something even one who has never added or subtracted above 2 digits can do with ease.  The second concept above SHOULD explain it like how one would use an abacus. Everyone here would get it in a heart beat.

This comes around to one of the big problems with Common Core. You have a single, 'common' curriculum development with no checks and balances and no local control. Some college hipster with a lot of letters behind his name is probably hired to write these lessons and he cares more about showing off some new concept than he does in clear explanations that produce results.

If there were local control of the curriculum with parents and boards choosing multiple suppliers and always looking for the best, the different curriculum development firms would be clamoring over each other to produce better and better results. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of checks and balances against how the curriculum is delivered, each testing what works best for the audience who is buying it. It would naturally evolve into better education.

Instead we have are trying to evolve education by mating clones.

 :amen: :amen:
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2014, 03:33:31 am »
My daughter-in-law, who lives in New York, has taught school for nearly 20 years. She said the what's worse than the kids having learn complicated procedures are the directions she is given to for teaching them. The parents are complaining, as well as the teachers who complain about teaching it.

And the core problem your daughter-in-law is describing is the radically stupid way in which NY is implementing Common Core.  Basically, the easiest analogy I've found is to a manual transmission car - thankfully, I think I can assume that everyone here knows what that is:  the way NY is implementing Common Core is like shifting a car from first gear straight to fifth gear without going through gears two, three or four; you can do it, but you're either going to burn out your clutch or redline your engine.  But just because someone burns a clutch shifting like that doesn't mean that the transmission itself is bad, or that the car is bad.

I can tell you from going to some of the meetings at the school that many of the teachers are just as anxious and tense as the parents because they've been thrown into the deep end without having been given proper swimming lessons either.  That all leads to a really tragic, toxic situation in which the anxiety of the kids, of the parents, and of the teachers all feed off of each other.

In short, the enemy is NYS, not Common Core.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2014, 03:38:35 am »
:amen: :amen:

local control over which curriculum to use to achieve a particular set of standards is not the same as local control over the standards themselves.  The big problem in education is local control over standards.  That problem was exacerbated by the No Child Left Behind idiocy that simply incentivized states to shoot for the lowest common denominator by dropping their standards as low as they could in order to keep the federal money flowing.

I am in wholehearted agreement that implementation should take into account the various differences in localities and school districts, even different schools in the same district, so long as every school has to teach to the same set of standards at the end of the day.  To that I would only add, as a corrollary, that implementation must also give teachers enough time to get up to speed with the new standards and get comfortable with the changes they have to make to their curricula, give kids enough time to adjust - this is mainly important for kids in 5th grade and higher - and give parents enough time to adjust as well.

Offline andy58-in-nh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,753
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2014, 03:40:52 am »

You're correct as to the object of teaching; but you're incorrect in the conclusion that this material is complicating the simple.  It is precisely simplifying the complicated.  You may not think that doing two-digit subtraction is complicated, but that's primarily because you've been doing it since you were in kindergarten; as such, you almost certainly no longer appreciate just how daunting it is for a kid to look at something like 40 - 8 =  ?  which seems so simple to you.  Part and parcel of teaching is having the adults - the teachers - regain an understanding of that kid's view so that they can then apply their own expertise to walking the kid through how to solve using what the kid already knows and using tools and techniques the kid is comfortable with - like counting on your fingers.

The methodology is non-intuitive. Look at the number of steps involved as compared with the traditional method of subtraction - it is unnecessarily complex to introduce addition into subtraction by means of such a methodology (40-10 = 30 +2 = 32). Try doing that with four-digit numbers and see where it gets you. "Borrowing and carrying" makes it both easy to comprehend, and translatable to large numbers.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2014, 03:42:59 am »
I am coming at this from a completely different perspective, being in adult education. One of my biggest challenges is working on programs that bring adults in the workforce up to corporate America's standards- and math is very much a challenge.

These problems seem very simple to me (the first one especially) but what is severely lacking it seems is the teachers and curriculum developer's real understanding of the method in order to explain it clearly on the worksheets.

The second one in this thread is a perfect example of a simple concept horribly explained (Oceander did a good job). One of the oldest and best tools for math, even complex number addition and subtraction, is the abacus. It has been used for thousands of years and is still used in offices all over China. You can do number calculations extremely quickly with those and it simplifies the concept of large number addition and subtraction to something even one who has never added or subtracted above 2 digits can do with ease.  The second concept above SHOULD explain it like how one would use an abacus. Everyone here would get it in a heart beat.

This comes around to one of the big problems with Common Core. You have a single, 'common' curriculum development with no checks and balances and no local control. Some college hipster with a lot of letters behind his name is probably hired to write these lessons and he cares more about showing off some new concept than he does in clear explanations that produce results.

If there were local control of the curriculum with parents and boards choosing multiple suppliers and always looking for the best, the different curriculum development firms would be clamoring over each other to produce better and better results. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of checks and balances against how the curriculum is delivered, each testing what works best for the audience who is buying it. It would naturally evolve into better education.

Instead we have are trying to evolve education by mating clones.

The only critique I would make is that the "common" in Common Core is the set of standards that must be met, not any particular curriculum that must be used to meet those standards.  In fact, the school my daughter goes to has one group of teachers testing out one of the comprehensive curriculum packages and another group testing out another one of the comprehensive packages - to the principal's everlasting credit, most of the teachers are allowed to use a blend of their old curriculum and those parts of the new curricula they find useful, but at the end of the day, probably by the end of next year, the school will have settled on which package to use.

In other words, there are, in fact, a number of different curricula available.

That being said, one of the big problems is the nature of the individuals creating the curriculum material; but I have found that this is a problem that transcends different sets of standards - some of the worst written, ambiguous, misleading, and poorly-worded materials I've seen were for pre-Common Core work in my daughter's earlier grades.

Offline ABX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2014, 03:46:07 am »
And the core problem your daughter-in-law is describing is the radically stupid way in which NY is implementing Common Core.  Basically, the easiest analogy I've found is to a manual transmission car - thankfully, I think I can assume that everyone here knows what that is:  the way NY is implementing Common Core is like shifting a car from first gear straight to fifth gear without going through gears two, three or four; you can do it, but you're either going to burn out your clutch or redline your engine.  But just because someone burns a clutch shifting like that doesn't mean that the transmission itself is bad, or that the car is bad.

I can tell you from going to some of the meetings at the school that many of the teachers are just as anxious and tense as the parents because they've been thrown into the deep end without having been given proper swimming lessons either.  That all leads to a really tragic, toxic situation in which the anxiety of the kids, of the parents, and of the teachers all feed off of each other.

In short, the enemy is NYS, not Common Core.

It is bleeding outside the school systems to my world as well. eLearning along with adult learning in general has gotten so bad, leaders in our field released this manifesto last week (I'm a signatory on it).

http://elearningmanifesto.org/

Many of the things identified here need to be brought down to the level of children's education as well. It addresses the failures of what we see in Common Core as well as the failures of past education and why we started slipping behind rapidly.

This is a very focused manifesto for the eLearning community, however, if you are in any way involved in education at any level, I suggest giving it a read. Maybe it is something that activists for better, locally controlled education can get something from. It is much better to make change to speak on eduction outcomes instead of some of the conspiracy theories I've been hearing. (No, I don't think Common Core is a conspiracy by the NWO to collapse the US- more like the Peter Principle in educational standards).

Offline aligncare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2014, 04:54:12 am »
The methodology is non-intuitive. Look at the number of steps involved as compared with the traditional method of subtraction - it is unnecessarily complex to introduce addition into subtraction by means of such a methodology (40-10 = 30 +2 = 32). Try doing that with four-digit numbers and see where it gets you. "Borrowing and carrying" makes it both easy to comprehend, and translatable to large numbers.

Borrowing and carrying is a much simpler process. Simpler is better. Modern educators are just full of themselves.