Author Topic: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.  (Read 5485 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 01:56:23 PM »
Weird! It appears to me they are trying to get the kids to think, but thinking without knowledge is useless.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 02:36:21 PM »
Weird! It appears to me they are trying to get the kids to think, but thinking without knowledge is useless.

It's what Nancy Pelosi does every day. Come to think of it, it's what most of government does everyday. So, it seems to me common core is just preparing kids for government jobs.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 03:37:38 PM »
Weird! It appears to me they are trying to get the kids to think, but thinking without knowledge is useless.
Indeed. Basic facts should be the first foundation of learning and should be the primary focus of a child that age. This kind of question requires a level of higher-level thinking that should not be required of someone below about third or fourth grade. Elementary school is called "elementary" for a reason: it is supposed to teach the elements of learning. Leave the higher level stuff to middle and high school.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 04:05:22 PM »
Indeed. Basic facts should be the first foundation of learning and should be the primary focus of a child that age. This kind of question requires a level of higher-level thinking that should not be required of someone below about third or fourth grade. Elementary school is called "elementary" for a reason: it is supposed to teach the elements of learning. Leave the higher level stuff to middle and high school.

 goopo  sadly Common Core wasn't created by educators trained to understand what you posted here.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 09:01:47 PM »
Give me a break.  What is this dweeb's PhD in, art history?  feminist lesbian critical studies?

First question:  the note from the teacher expressly says "your child practiced telling subtraction stories."  Did super-wiz PhD Dad bother to ask his five year old what the child did in class that day, in particular, about telling subtraction stories?

Second question:  do people not know what a "subtraction story" is?  Try Google.  In the meantime, here's a good summary:  it's a word problem, like this:

Quote
Anna had 15 stickers.  She gave 4 stickers to her best friend Jane.  How many stickers does Anna have left?

Is that really so difficult that a PhD cannot figure it out?

Third question:  given the above, can anyone figure out what the point of that worksheet is?  Anyone?  Calling Ferris Bueller.  Try this:  it's about having the kid come up with three subtraction word problems using things in that picture.

Why the picture?  Because (a) it gives the kids something visual and concrete to use in trying to work through what is an otherwise abstract concept - subtraction, and (b) it limits the universe of possible word problems the kids can come up with, which makes the teacher's job a little easier and more efficient when he (or she) checks the homework.

Why have the kids come up with subtraction stories on their own?  Because it's a really good way to help develop their comprehension and understanding of subtraction and word problems in general.  First of all, they actually do have to do the subtraction themselves in order to get a correct substraction story.  Second, by having them put together a word problem using the subtraction problem they just figured out, it develops their understanding of what's really going on in a word problem; that's helpful for a lot of things besides subtraction and the fact of the matter is that young children can easily get confused about what they're supposed to do with a word problem.  Sometimes the best way to understand something is to take it apart and put it back together again.

Fourth question:  what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright?  Let's try this:
EVERYTHING
EVER
WRITTEN
IS
COPYRIGHTED.
EVERYTHING.

(which reminds me, Myst and R4P&C should probably put something in the Terms of Service about posters giving their copyrights, if any, to the forum for anything they post, or at least granting the forum a perpetual, nonexclusive, assignable license to use the posters' materials)

Copyright arises automatically as soon as something is written - the author doesn't have to do anything other than writing.  Putting the (c) symbol makes the existence of copyright clear to anyone who reads the piece; that can be important for material that readers might assume is in the public domain.

Fifth question:  "transprancy" is some subtle hint of deep, dark Common Core secrets?  Seriously?  I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but homework worksheets sometimes come with mistakes like mispelled words.  I used to amuse myself by "grading" the worksheets my daughter brought home when she was in 3d grade, complete with red pen.

Seriously people, there are enough other issues with Common Core - real issues that should addressed - that there is no need to fabricate issues where none exist.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 09:17:49 PM by Oceander »

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 09:05:52 PM »
Quote
Fourth question:  what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright?  Let's try this:

EVERYTHING

This is kindergarten, 4 and 5 year olds. They don't do critical thinking at that age. You teach kids the basics first, and then, move on in steps. This is almost like working from the top down, rather than the bottom up.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 09:17:23 PM »
This is kindergarten, 4 and 5 year olds. They don't do critical thinking at that age. You teach kids the basics first, and then, move on in steps. This is almost like working from the top down, rather than the bottom up.

This isn't a critical thinking question. This is a basic concept reinforcement. Understanding what is addition or subtraction by saying a story about it. At that age, you can't drill into them "Subtraction is the difference between two values....." What you can do is say, 'Subtraction is like when you have four apples and you give Sally two'. Analogies work great with very, very young children. (look at how we teach pre-school the alphabet- by showing an animal or object with each letter).

There are a lot of problems with Common Core (elimination of parental & local control, horrible history lessons, etc) but some of these so called 'bad math' problems are just silly. I've seen some bad ones, but I've seen some logical ones like this.

The first thing that struck me about this was the PhD didn't know what 'transparancy(sic)' meant? (yes, spelled wrong) I guess he hasn't been in a classroom in fifty years. He forgot about these?


Offline Oceander

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 09:19:10 PM »
This is kindergarten, 4 and 5 year olds. They don't do critical thinking at that age. You teach kids the basics first, and then, move on in steps. This is almost like working from the top down, rather than the bottom up.

I second Abaraxas' reply.

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 09:31:26 PM »
There are a lot simpler ways to teach kids the same concept. I've been around many kids who knew the basics before starting school. Then, after starting school, they end up not doing very well. At that age, they learn as much from Sesame Street and other children's educational shows as they do schools, probably more.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 09:33:02 PM »
There are a lot simpler ways to teach kids the same concept. I've been around many kids who knew the basics before starting school. Then, after starting school, they end up not doing very well. At that age, they learn as much from Sesame Street and other children's educational shows as they do schools, probably more.

With all due respect, you're looking at one of the simpler ways to teach kids the very difficult concept (at that age) of subtraction and also of abstracting the operation so they can apply it to new situations they haven't seen before.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 09:36:16 PM »
There are a lot simpler ways to teach kids the same concept. I've been around many kids who knew the basics before starting school. Then, after starting school, they end up not doing very well. At that age, they learn as much from Sesame Street and other children's educational shows as they do schools, probably more.

This seems almost exactly how Sesame Street does it. Replace kids in a park with Cookie Monster and there you go.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 09:37:58 PM by AbaraXas »

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 09:41:59 PM »
This seems almost exactly how Sesame Street does it. Replace kids in a park with Cookie Monster and there you go.



There is a huge difference. The cookies is one problem. The paper at the top of the page is a bunch of random things. Teach the kids one thing at a time. It's not just about math, but these young children have to learn other subjects, too.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 09:47:22 PM »
There is a huge difference. The cookies is one problem. The paper at the top of the page is a bunch of random things. Teach the kids one thing at a time. It's not just about math, but these young children have to learn other subjects, too.

With all due respect, you really are missing the entire point.  I don't know if you have kids, or how old they are, but my daughter is 9, in 4th grade, and I've been working with stuff like this for the last 5 years (starting with pre-K), and I can tell you that having assignments like this as part of a larger program to teach kids math helps them get the concept, and it's getting the concept that matters.  I did things almost exactly like this with my daughter when she was first learning math.

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2014, 09:49:26 PM »
Give me a break.  What is this dweeb's PhD in, art history?  feminist lesbian critical studies?

First question:  the note from the teacher expressly says "your child practiced telling subtraction stories."  Did super-wiz PhD Dad bother to ask his five year old what the child did in class that day, in particular, about telling subtraction stories?

Second question:  do people not know what a "subtraction story" is?  Try Google.  In the meantime, here's a good summary:  it's a word problem, like this:

Is that really so difficult that a PhD cannot figure it out?

Third question:  given the above, can anyone figure out what the point of that worksheet is?  Anyone?  Calling Ferris Bueller.  Try this:  it's about having the kid come up with three subtraction word problems using things in that picture.

Why the picture?  Because (a) it gives the kids something visual and concrete to use in trying to work through what is an otherwise abstract concept - subtraction, and (b) it limits the universe of possible word problems the kids can come up with, which makes the teacher's job a little easier and more efficient when he (or she) checks the homework.

Why have the kids come up with subtraction stories on their own?  Because it's a really good way to help develop their comprehension and understanding of subtraction and word problems in general.  First of all, they actually do have to do the subtraction themselves in order to get a correct substraction story.  Second, by having them put together a word problem using the subtraction problem they just figured out, it develops their understanding of what's really going on in a word problem; that's helpful for a lot of things besides subtraction and the fact of the matter is that young children can easily get confused about what they're supposed to do with a word problem.  Sometimes the best way to understand something is to take it apart and put it back together again.

Fourth question:  what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright?  Let's try this:
EVERYTHING
EVER
WRITTEN
IS
COPYRIGHTED.
EVERYTHING.

(which reminds me, Myst and R4P&C should probably put something in the Terms of Service about posters giving their copyrights, if any, to the forum for anything they post, or at least granting the forum a perpetual, nonexclusive, assignable license to use the posters' materials)

Copyright arises automatically as soon as something is written - the author doesn't have to do anything other than writing.  Putting the (c) symbol makes the existence of copyright clear to anyone who reads the piece; that can be important for material that readers might assume is in the public domain.

Fifth question:  "transprancy" is some subtle hint of deep, dark Common Core secrets?  Seriously?  I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but homework worksheets sometimes come with mistakes like mispelled words.  I used to amuse myself by "grading" the worksheets my daughter brought home when she was in 3d grade, complete with red pen.

Seriously people, there are enough other issues with Common Core - real issues that should addressed - that there is no need to fabricate issues where none exist.

LOL!!  I had the same reaction.  It was pretty clear to me what the assignment was (and what the subtraction stories are supposed to be), and I'm not an educator.  (I did have a kid go through school a number of years ago, and did help with homework from time to time.)  It just seems that a little common sense was all that was required here.  (c)

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2014, 09:50:34 PM »
This isn't a critical thinking question. This is a basic concept reinforcement. Understanding what is addition or subtraction by saying a story about it. At that age, you can't drill into them "Subtraction is the difference between two values....." What you can do is say, 'Subtraction is like when you have four apples and you give Sally two'. Analogies work great with very, very young children. (look at how we teach pre-school the alphabet- by showing an animal or object with each letter).

There are a lot of problems with Common Core (elimination of parental & local control, horrible history lessons, etc) but some of these so called 'bad math' problems are just silly. I've seen some bad ones, but I've seen some logical ones like this.

The first thing that struck me about this was the PhD didn't know what 'transparancy(sic)' meant? (yes, spelled wrong) I guess he hasn't been in a classroom in fifty years. He forgot about these?



Yes.

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2014, 09:51:11 PM »
With all due respect, I have three sons, and fifteen grandkids (three great grandkids), so I have been around the block with education. I am not missing the point.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 09:56:27 PM »
With all due respect, I have three sons, and fifteen grandkids (three great grandkids), so I have been around the block with education. I am not missing the point.

I'm afraid that you are.  How old is the youngest of your grandkids?  When was the last time you actually sat down with a kindergartener and helped him/her with math homework?  This is an extremely useful tool in the math teaching toolbox.  The point you're missing is that you're assuming that this is the only thing Common Core uses to teach math.  It isn't, and it's extremely disingenuous of articles like this to make people think that's what Common Core is about.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 09:56:59 PM by Oceander »

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 09:58:51 PM »
That is just your opinion. I happen to disagree. Here is another math problem, that can be figured out, but is a waste of time.


Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 10:00:56 PM »
I wonder how those of us who were not educated via Common Core ever managed to read, write or get a successful job........... sarc

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 10:12:25 PM »
I wonder how those of us who were not educated via Common Core ever managed to read, write or get a successful job........... sarc

I never went to kindergarten because there weren't any in my home town. By the time I started first grade, Mom had 6 or 7 kids, and didn't have time to teach us. Captain Kangaroo wasn't even on tv then, either, so evidently I learned on my own and from my siblings, and from teachers actually teaching. They kept it simple, as it should be.

Offline LambChop

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 10:12:50 PM »
Give me a break.  What is this dweeb's PhD in, art history?  feminist lesbian critical studies?

First question:  the note from the teacher expressly says "your child practiced telling subtraction stories."  Did super-wiz PhD Dad bother to ask his five year old what the child did in class that day, in particular, about telling subtraction stories?

Second question:  do people not know what a "subtraction story" is?  Try Google.  In the meantime, here's a good summary:  it's a word problem, like this:

Is that really so difficult that a PhD cannot figure it out?

Third question:  given the above, can anyone figure out what the point of that worksheet is?  Anyone?  Calling Ferris Bueller.  Try this:  it's about having the kid come up with three subtraction word problems using things in that picture.

Why the picture?  Because (a) it gives the kids something visual and concrete to use in trying to work through what is an otherwise abstract concept - subtraction, and (b) it limits the universe of possible word problems the kids can come up with, which makes the teacher's job a little easier and more efficient when he (or she) checks the homework.

Why have the kids come up with subtraction stories on their own?  Because it's a really good way to help develop their comprehension and understanding of subtraction and word problems in general.  First of all, they actually do have to do the subtraction themselves in order to get a correct substraction story.  Second, by having them put together a word problem using the subtraction problem they just figured out, it develops their understanding of what's really going on in a word problem; that's helpful for a lot of things besides subtraction and the fact of the matter is that young children can easily get confused about what they're supposed to do with a word problem.  Sometimes the best way to understand something is to take it apart and put it back together again.

Fourth question:  what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright?  Let's try this:
EVERYTHING
EVER
WRITTEN
IS
COPYRIGHTED.
EVERYTHING.

(which reminds me, Myst and R4P&C should probably put something in the Terms of Service about posters giving their copyrights, if any, to the forum for anything they post, or at least granting the forum a perpetual, nonexclusive, assignable license to use the posters' materials)

Copyright arises automatically as soon as something is written - the author doesn't have to do anything other than writing.  Putting the (c) symbol makes the existence of copyright clear to anyone who reads the piece; that can be important for material that readers might assume is in the public domain.

Fifth question:  "transprancy" is some subtle hint of deep, dark Common Core secrets?  Seriously?  I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but homework worksheets sometimes come with mistakes like mispelled words.  I used to amuse myself by "grading" the worksheets my daughter brought home when she was in 3d grade, complete with red pen.

Seriously people, there are enough other issues with Common Core - real issues that should addressed - that there is no need to fabricate issues where none exist.

I'm with you.  I dropped out of college but I figured out the assignment by looking at the page.

 

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2014, 10:15:07 PM »
I'm with you.  I dropped out of college but I figured out the assignment by looking at the page.

I figured it out, too, but I am not five years old.

Offline LambChop

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2014, 10:20:07 PM »
I figured it out, too, but I am not five years old.

So one could say we're smarter than the Ph.D. dad.

Offline happyg

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Re: Bizarro Common Core kindergarten math homework stumps DAD WITH Ph.D.
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2014, 10:25:33 PM »


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