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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2014, 10:21:30 PM »
Like shutting down the government because Obama wouldn't agree to defund Obamacare? 

Fighting when there is no chance at victory is stupid and suicidal.

Nonsense.  Utter nonsense.  You fight when your cause is just and the time demands it.  Victory doesn't take a majority, it takes an insistent, vocal minority (who are not afraid to fight).

November will be here soon enough .... and you'll see the sleeping giants the brave souls like Cruz have woken up. 

In the meantime, get a massage, clean the garage, read a good book.....do whatever helps you relax.  You'll feel better in a few months.  Promise.

XOXO   ^-^

"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2014, 10:25:06 PM »
Washington had a goal and he had guts.  As did every man who signed the Declaration of Independence.  These times demand the same dedication to the same goal...and the same type of guts. 

Now is the time for political action, not fear.  This is the year we need to vote as though the very future of our nation hangs in the balance. The entrenched status quo is simply not good enough for the job at hand.  Our voices and our votes need to be loud and clear about this.

I think you missed Once-ler's point.  Yes Geo. Washington had guts, and he had a purpose that he didn't stray from, but he also had a keen sense of both tactics and strategy and was able to change his plan of attack - change the means and methods used to attain his goals - when his first approach failed to bear fruit.  He also looked for friends and allies where they could be found, and made common cause with them even though there were a lot of issues that also separated Washington's troops from such people; a number of native american tribes fought with the colonists against the British (a large number also fought alongside the British).

As I read Once-ler's comment, his point is that this is where Cruz is failing:  he isn't seeking to make common cause with potential friends and allies, and has instead alienated a number of people whom he could have used - that's right, I said "used", as in like tools - to give his actions greater, and more lasting, effect.

Offline Once-Ler

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« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2014, 10:30:18 PM »
I think you missed Once-ler's point.  Yes Geo. Washington had guts, and he had a purpose that he didn't stray from, but he also had a keen sense of both tactics and strategy and was able to change his plan of attack - change the means and methods used to attain his goals - when his first approach failed to bear fruit.  He also looked for friends and allies where they could be found, and made common cause with them even though there were a lot of issues that also separated Washington's troops from such people; a number of native american tribes fought with the colonists against the British (a large number also fought alongside the British).

As I read Once-ler's comment, his point is that this is where Cruz is failing:  he isn't seeking to make common cause with potential friends and allies, and has instead alienated a number of people whom he could have used - that's right, I said "used", as in like tools - to give his actions greater, and more lasting, effect.

That is better than what I would have wrote.
No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.  We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence.  We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil.  And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans

-President Trump 8/14/17

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2014, 10:34:37 PM »
I think you missed Once-ler's point.  Yes Geo. Washington had guts, and he had a purpose that he didn't stray from, but he also had a keen sense of both tactics and strategy and was able to change his plan of attack -

Here's my point:  NO ONE ELSE IS FIGHTING!  Tactics and strategy take a team .... and the entrenched GOP doesn't want to play the game.  They're afraid and clinging to their self-made status quo.  The nation be damned.

Cruz is almost alone.  And yet he soldiers on.  I am one citizen thankful for his "ilk"....and pray they continue the fight.  Cruz is one of the lights still shining in this dreadful darkness. God bless him.



"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2014, 10:36:04 PM »
That is better than what I would have wrote.

Read my reply.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2014, 10:37:45 PM »
Nonsense.  Utter nonsense.  You fight when your cause is just and the time demands it.  Victory doesn't take a majority, it takes an insistent, vocal minority (who are not afraid to fight).

November will be here soon enough .... and you'll see the sleeping giants the brave souls like Cruz have woken up. 

In the meantime, get a massage, clean the garage, read a good book.....do whatever helps you relax.  You'll feel better in a few months.  Promise.

XOXO   ^-^

You go ahead and die on that hill.

November will be good for the GOP, and it will be good because of the focus on Obamacare, NOT a fight picked over the debt ceiling. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Fishrrman

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« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2014, 10:39:00 PM »

Offline Once-Ler

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« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2014, 10:39:19 PM »
Here's my point:  NO ONE ELSE IS FIGHTING!  Tactics and strategy take a team .... and the entrenched GOP doesn't want to play the game.  They're afraid and clinging to their self-made status quo.  The nation be damned.

Cruz is almost alone.  And yet he soldiers on.  I am one citizen thankful for his "ilk"....and pray they continue the fight.  Cruz is one of the lights still shining in this dreadful darkness. God bless him.
Read it.  Disagree.
No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.  We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence.  We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil.  And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans

-President Trump 8/14/17

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2014, 10:39:30 PM »
Here's my point:  NO ONE ELSE IS FIGHTING!  Tactics and strategy take a team .... and the entrenched GOP doesn't want to play the game.  They're afraid and clinging to their self-made status quo.  The nation be damned.

Cruz is almost alone.  And yet he soldiers on.  I am one citizen thankful for his "ilk"....and pray they continue the fight.  Cruz is one of the lights still shining in this dreadful darkness. God bless him.



Martyrdom doesn't solve much of anything, and if Cruz is ignoring those opportunities offered to him and is spurning potential allies because they aren't quite as "pure" as he'd like them to be, then he's not fighting the good fight, he's aggrandizing himself as a martyr.

And as I recall - it was posted elsewhere just recently - McConnell did manage to keep the republicans in the House sufficiently in line that not a one voted for Obamacare; for the more liberal republicans it must have been a real temptation to join in that vote to look like one of the "people who care."

I'm not saying that McConnell is a great fighter, all I'm saying is that he hasn't been completely passive and that to the extent he does fight, he uses a different style of fighting.  My concerns with McConnell are that he doesn't seem to have a sufficiently strong purpose or set of principles driving, and informing, his actions, amongst others.  Cruz could certainly bring the fire of conviction to the team, and that is why I think a smart, strategic alliance between McConnell on the one hand and Cruz on the other could be fruitful, but that will not, and cannot, happen while Cruz grandstands and refuses to take up the opportunities that were offered to him when he was first elected.

The McConnell-ites and the Cruz-ites could make an unstoppable team - the ne plus ultra of good cop/bad cop - if only they could both realize that the real enemies don't have an 'R' after their names.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 10:46:22 PM by Oceander »

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2014, 10:40:33 PM »
You go ahead and die on that hill.

November will be good for the GOP, and it will be good because of the focus on Obamacare, NOT a fight picked over the debt ceiling. 

From your lips to God's ear.  I am more than a little worried that this childish bickering - from both sides - within the GOP will end up handing the democrats a miraculous set of victories in Nov.

Offline Once-Ler

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« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2014, 10:43:05 PM »
From your lips to God's ear.  I am more than a little worried that this childish bickering - from both sides - within the GOP will end up handing the democrats a miraculous set of victories in Nov.

Things will smooth out after the primaries.
No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.  We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence.  We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil.  And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans

-President Trump 8/14/17

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2014, 10:46:30 PM »
Things will smooth out after the primaries.

Let's hope so, but I'm not as sanguine as you.  SCF and FreedomWorks still need to fund their operations, and they're not known to actually attack Democrats.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2014, 10:46:45 PM »
Martyrdom doesn't solve much of anything, and if Cruz is ignoring those opportunities offered to him and is spurning potential allies because they aren't quite as "pure" as he'd like them to be, then he's not fighting the good fight, he's aggrandizing himself as a martyr.

Sweetie...you've got to get past Cruz.  He's one voice ... a needed voice ... a welcomed voice.  He stirs the masses, whether you like it or not.  He is not the enemy.



"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2014, 10:48:29 PM »
Read it.  Disagree.


Thank you for your candor, John Dickinson.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2014, 10:50:00 PM »
Sweetie...you've got to get past Cruz.  He's one voice ... a needed voice ... a welcomed voice.  He stirs the masses, whether you like it or not.  He is not the enemy.



thanks for the personal attack, and the utter failure to appreciate anything that I've posted on this conversation.  To that end, since too many seem to ignore what I actually post, I'm going to put up the graphic of mine that Once-ler is getting so tired of:




To the extent that my little graphic pisses people off, I say good, because this idiotic, incessant, childish, inane, asinine - adjectives fail me - bickering between the various factions in the GOP has thoroughly pissed me off.


Offline happyg

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« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2014, 10:50:14 PM »
Sweetie...you've got to get past Cruz.  He's one voice ... a needed voice ... a welcomed voice.  He stirs the masses, whether you like it or not.  He is not the enemy.

Too many want to go along to get along, which has been happening for too long! It's past time that someone takes a stand, and that we stand behind whoever has the guts to speak out. The politics of the past have gotten us into this mess today. All those involved need to be gone.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2014, 10:51:45 PM »
Martyrdom doesn't solve much of anything, and if Cruz is ignoring those opportunities offered to him and is spurning potential allies because they aren't quite as "pure" as he'd like them to be, then he's not fighting the good fight, he's aggrandizing himself as a martyr.


Terrific and thoughtful post.  Thanks.

Bottom line:  I don't trust McConnell (or the majority of Republican Senators).   They're part of the problem.

So I've no problem with Cruz ignoring the "opportunities" offered by the entrenched Senators.  Those Senators are not fighting for me.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2014, 10:54:05 PM »

thanks for the personal attack, and the utter failure to appreciate anything that I've posted on this conversation.  To that end, since too many seem to ignore what I actually post, I'm going to put up the graphic of mine that Once-ler is getting so tired of:


What personal attack?  Really.  Tell me how I attacked you. 

"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline katzenjammer

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« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2014, 10:57:21 PM »
Here's my point:  NO ONE ELSE IS FIGHTING!  Tactics and strategy take a team .... and the entrenched GOP doesn't want to play the game.  They're afraid and clinging to their self-made status quo.  The nation be damned.

Cruz is almost alone.  And yet he soldiers on.  I am one citizen thankful for his "ilk"....and pray they continue the fight.  Cruz is one of the lights still shining in this dreadful darkness. God bless him.

Exactly!!  They couldn't make it any clearer that they don't want to fight.  They are NOT on our side.  But some people will go to their graves before they ever get it.

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2014, 10:59:14 PM »
Terrific and thoughtful post.  Thanks.

Bottom line:  I don't trust McConnell (or the majority of Republican Senators).   They're part of the problem.

So I've no problem with Cruz ignoring the "opportunities" offered by the entrenched Senators.  Those Senators are not fighting for me.

Interesting.  Should Geo. Washington have rejected the offers of assistance in the fight against the British in the Revolutionary War because the offerors were native americans, who did have a number of other conflicts with the colonists?

Implicit in your statement is the conclusion that Cruz had to reject any and all offers because he is in fact too weak to resist the temptations he would have been faced with had he accepted those offers.  I'm not sure if that really puts Cruz in the best light possible.  After all, if the GOP moderates are as weak and rudderless as they've been accused of being, wouldn't it be easier for Cruz to have taken charge and pushed them in the direction he wanted than it was/is for the democrats to push them - the GOP moderates - around?

Success in politics is all about log-rolling, and those who refuse to participate generally do not get very far.  That is the real lesson of Reagan and his success as president - he understood that better than most people in the 20th Century, and he wasn't afraid to get in there and roll, roll, roll just so long as he got something for everything he gave up.  I rather wish that Cruz had that same ability - he has the potential, but he hasn't realized it to any great extent.

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2014, 11:00:24 PM »
What personal attack?  Really.  Tell me how I attacked you. 



using a rather dismissive, sexist epithet as the first part of an answer to someone whose views you oppose is not exactly objective, rational discourse, is it?

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2014, 11:00:31 PM »
Exactly!!  They couldn't make it any clearer that they don't want to fight.  They are NOT on our side.  But some people will go to their graves before they ever get it.

 :beer:
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2014, 11:01:23 PM »
using a rather dismissive, sexist epithet as the first part of an answer to someone whose views you oppose is not exactly objective, rational discourse, is it?

Please accept my most sincere apologies for having offended you.

XOXO
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline katzenjammer

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« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2014, 11:01:54 PM »

thanks for the personal attack, and the utter failure to appreciate anything that I've posted on this conversation.  To that end, since too many seem to ignore what I actually post, I'm going to put up the graphic of mine that Once-ler is getting so tired of:




To the extent that my little graphic pisses people off, I say good, because this idiotic, incessant, childish, inane, asinine - adjectives fail me - bickering between the various factions in the GOP has thoroughly pissed me off.

That stupid graphic is utter HORSESHIT!!  Get it through your head: McConnell & the GOPe are NOT "Moderates" -- they are statists.  They thrive on Big Government!!  They WANT more and more Big Government -- their actions speak much louder than their mealy mouth words.  SMH

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2014, 11:02:53 PM »
That stupid graphic is utter HORSESHIT!!  Get it through your head: McConnell & the GOPe are NOT "Moderates" -- they are statists.  They thrive on Big Government!!  They WANT more and more Big Government -- their actions speak much louder than their mealy mouth words.  SMH

and thank you, too, for that riveting personal attack.


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