Author Topic: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water  (Read 2449 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/12/Study-Blows-Labor-Shortage-Claim-Out-Of-The-Water

Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water

by Matthew Boyle 12 Mar 2014, 6:59 PM PDT

Large numbers of Americans, especially those with less education, continue to have difficulty finding work, undermining arguments that there is a “labor shortage” and need for increased immigration, a new study from the Center for Immigration Studies finds.

The report, provided exclusively to Breitbart News, shows that the employment situation of American workers has gradually declined over the past 14 years since 2000.

The number of working age adults who are not working has risen relatively quickly in the last 15 years. In 2000, 35.8 million native-born Americans between 18 and 65 years weren't working. In 2006, the number was 40.5 million. In part because of the recession, the number spiked, and it 2013, stood at 50.5 million people.

The percentage of American adults who are not working has also gradually increased, from 24.1 percent in 2000 to 25.7 percent in 2006 before spiking upward 30.8 percent in 2013.

The study found the decline in employment cut across all racial, educational, and demographic groups. While native-born African Americans and Hispanics are the hardest hit races and decreased education seems to exacerbate the problem, all Americans have seen a downward slope in employment attainment success since 2000.

“Congress is currently considering immigration reform packages that include work permits for those in the country illegally, as well as substantial increases in future legal immigration,” CIS’s Steven Camarota and Karen Ziegler wrote in the report. “Yet the latest employment data continue to show an enormous number of working-age Americans not working, particularly those with modest levels of education.”

One key finding of the CIS report is that in the fourth quarter of 2013 the unemployment rate for American-born adults who have not completed high school and have looked for a job in the last four weeks was at 16.6 percent. For American-born adults seeking a job in the last four weeks with just a high school diploma, unemployment stood at 8.5 percent. Under the broader measure of unemployment, working age Americans who want to work but haven’t looked in a while or have been forced into part-time job, 28.7 percent of American-born adults without a high school degree are unemployed and 16.5 percent of Americans with a high school diploma are unemployed.

With such high percentages, and actual numbers, of unemployed Americans—a situation that gotten gradually worse since 2000—Camarota of CIS told Breitbart News there is no legitimate way advocates of a significant increase in legal immigration and amnesty could argue there is a labor shortage in America and therefore a need for foreign workers.

“There are many in Congress, of both parties, who seem to think that labor is in short supply,” Camarota said. “The only way to come to that conclusion is to ignore all of the data the government collects on employment or wages. The only piece of evidence that there is a labor shortage is testimonials of employers who want to bring in additional foreign workers,” he added.

Another key finding of the CIS report found that in the fourth quarter of 2013, only two working age American-born workers held a job for every one such worker not working. “This represents a huge deterioration,” the authors wrote about that finding. “As recently as 2000, there were three working-age adults holding a job for every one not working.”

“Across the labor market the employment situation remains dismal,” Camarota said in an email. “The percentage and number of working-age American not working are near record highs. Things are especially bad for the young, minorities, and the less-educated. Yet the Senate passed a bill that gives work permits to millions of illegal immigrants and doubles the number of foreign workers allowed into the country. There is a real disconnect between what Washington is doing on immigration, and what is actually happening in the U.S. labor market.”
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2014, 11:32:04 PM »
So, did the authors of this study bother to check to see if these unemployed had applied for, or would consider applying for, the open jobs that companies would like to fill with immigrants?  There may be plenty of unemployed as well as plenty of open jobs if the former aren't interested in the latter.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 11:38:23 PM »
So, did the authors of this study bother to check to see if these unemployed had applied for, or would consider applying for, the open jobs that companies would like to fill with immigrants?  There may be plenty of unemployed as well as plenty of open jobs if the former aren't interested in the latter.

Frankly, I think if a person is healthy they should received limited benefits and after that either find a job or too bad too sad...  Obama is creating a society of lazy miscreants.  At the very least they should not be receiving free cell phones, etc....   the bare min to survive, make it uncomfortable to be unemployed instead of giving them so much they can make more not working than taking a job and working up the ladder of success.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 11:55:39 PM »
Frankly, I think if a person is healthy they should received limited benefits and after that either find a job or too bad too sad...  Obama is creating a society of lazy miscreants.  At the very least they should not be receiving free cell phones, etc....   the bare min to survive, make it uncomfortable to be unemployed instead of giving them so much they can make more not working than taking a job and working up the ladder of success.

ok, but the question still remains.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 12:02:27 AM »
ok, but the question still remains.

I would take a WAG and say no they haven't applied - just like my neighbor from MN who is thinking of closing his business because no one wants to work at a starting wage of $15 an hour and those who do want to work hard are crossing over to ND and working for six figures a year.    Just like our own LiberalSpy who blatantly said he didn't want to work hard.  We are raising a nation of lazy people.  That is no excuse to import labor because our current labor won't work - they would work if it wasn't so easy to not work.  That is my point - take away the ease of sitting on the couch, talking on the cell phone, watching big screen TV... then if we need more labor let's address it then.  Remember Rudy was successful in New York instituting "workfare."
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2014, 12:09:42 AM »
I would take a WAG and say no they haven't applied - just like my neighbor from MN who is thinking of closing his business because no one wants to work at a starting wage of $15 an hour and those who do want to work hard are crossing over to ND and working for six figures a year.    Just like our own LiberalSpy who blatantly said he didn't want to work hard.  We are raising a nation of lazy people.  That is no excuse to import labor because our current labor won't work - they would work if it wasn't so easy to not work.  That is my point - take away the ease of sitting on the couch, talking on the cell phone, watching big screen TV... then if we need more labor let's address it then.  Remember Rudy was successful in New York instituting "workfare."

Why force people to work?  Indentured servitude isn't pretty.  If they don't want to work, so be it, bring in someone who will.  I very much doubt that cutting benefits is going to suddenly make someone like liberalspy willing to take a job in a lawncare business, for example.  Many will simply move home (esp. the younger), and there will be endless grousing about the unfairness of it all.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 12:14:22 AM »
Why force people to work?  Indentured servitude isn't pretty.  If they don't want to work, so be it, bring in someone who will.  I very much doubt that cutting benefits is going to suddenly make someone like liberalspy willing to take a job in a lawncare business, for example.  Many will simply move home (esp. the younger), and there will be endless grousing about the unfairness of it all.

Why should we work to support someone who we didn't birth so they can sit around on the couch all day?  They don't want to work - fine...... but they can go hungry and see if they like that better than work.  My guess is they would discover a love of work really fast.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2014, 12:16:58 AM »
Why should we work to support someone who we didn't birth so they can sit around on the couch all day?  They don't want to work - fine...... but they can go hungry and see if they like that better than work.  My guess is they would discover a love of work really fast.

That's fine; I don't think we should be relying on lazy fools who are only looking for work because they're being forced to.  I'd rather have someone who wants the job doing it.

That being said, unemployment benefits will never go away, period, so rather than tilting at windmills we should do what's necessary to get people who want to take the jobs that are open.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2014, 12:24:06 AM »
That's fine; I don't think we should be relying on lazy fools who are only looking for work because they're being forced to.  I'd rather have someone who wants the job doing it.

That being said, unemployment benefits will never go away, period, so rather than tilting at windmills we should do what's necessary to get people who want to take the jobs that are open.

Disagree.  We all have to do things we don't like to in life, that is part of the life experience.  If a person is disabled that is one thing, lazy is another - we have too many lazy people and it's because we've made it too easy to be lazy.

I used to work with a black man who had 12 children.  His wife's job was caring for the kids.  They didn't live in an expensive home in a great neighborhood, but instead they lived in a poor neighborhood in Compton.  He told all 12 of his kids their jobs were to go to school and be good students and do their chores (rotating schedule) at home.  When they graduated from HS they either went to college or got a job or he broke their plate and they were on their own.  Know what - ALL 12 of those kids were honor students and all 12 got college scholarships and all graduated to good careers.  It was so unusual in those days for that many black kids in one family in a poor neighborhood to do so well they were written up in the LA Times.  And, BTW Lonnie was one of the nicest and funniest guys you'd ever meet and a very, very hard worker, too.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2014, 12:28:45 AM »
Disagree.  We all have to do things we don't like to in life, that is part of the life experience.  If a person is disabled that is one thing, lazy is another - we have too many lazy people and it's because we've made it too easy to be lazy.

I used to work with a black man who had 12 children.  His wife's job was caring for the kids.  They didn't live in an expensive home in a great neighborhood, but instead they lived in a poor neighborhood in Compton.  He told all 12 of his kids their jobs were to go to school and be good students and do their chores (rotating schedule) at home.  When they graduated from HS they either went to college or got a job or he broke their plate and they were on their own.  Know what - ALL 12 of those kids were honor students and all 12 got college scholarships and all graduated to good careers.  It was so unusual in those days for that many black kids in one family in a poor neighborhood to do so well they were written up in the LA Times.  And, BTW Lonnie was one of the nicest and funniest guys you'd ever meet and a very, very hard worker, too.

I never said that none of them would change their tune, I said that most of them wouldn't.  And even so, I really don't care.  Were I to hire people, I wouldn't want to hire someone who was coming to me just because they were being forced to get a job - blow that - I would only hire people who honestly cared about the job and wanted to do that.  And if we can't find enough of those sort of people now, then we owe it to ourselves to bring in people who will.

Consider:  the reduced economic activity does more harm than the unemployment benefits so, bring in people who will really provide value-add - because they really want to do the work - and then all of us benefit and the cost of the unemployment benefits becomes comparatively less.

industrious immigrants are the solution, not the problem.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2014, 12:35:38 AM »
They are not all that industrious, too many come here for our benefits.  Not everyone is a New York Cabbie worker-bee...   
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2014, 12:37:26 AM »
They are not all that industrious, too many come here for our benefits.  Not everyone is a New York Cabbie worker-bee...   

They are plenty industrious.  They'll do a tear-down on a renovation project fast and efficient; they'll mow the heck out of a lawn; what they won't do is go get a PhD in English Lit and then moan about the unfair state of the world.

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2014, 08:06:31 AM »
So, did the authors of this study bother to check to see if these unemployed had applied for, or would consider applying for, the open jobs that companies would like to fill with immigrants?  There may be plenty of unemployed as well as plenty of open jobs if the former aren't interested in the latter.
Even with that, realize that there are still at least three people unemployed for every job opening. At the peak of the recession, it was as high as six. There's more than a gap in skills or geography in play here. There are simply too few jobs to go around.

I have heard a statistic that states for the average job opening, the chances of any individual person getting that job are 1 in 70. You literally have a better chance of making money off Powerball.
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Offline happyg

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2014, 09:55:20 PM »
I read a lot of instances where hundreds of people showed up for one job. There are enough Americans who need and want the same jobs as immigrants.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2014, 11:00:30 PM »
Even with that, realize that there are still at least three people unemployed for every job opening. At the peak of the recession, it was as high as six. There's more than a gap in skills or geography in play here. There are simply too few jobs to go around.

I have heard a statistic that states for the average job opening, the chances of any individual person getting that job are 1 in 70. You literally have a better chance of making money off Powerball.


only if you use the overall odds, which are predominantly weighted toward winning the $4 prize (for which the odds are 1:55.4); the odds of winning any prize whatsoever are, apparently, 1:31.85.  The odds of winning even $7 are substantially worse than getting that job:  1:360.14.  The odds of winning $100 are almost astronomical by comparison:  1:12,244.83.  (stats for powerball are here:  http://www.powerball.com/powerball/pb_prizes.asp).

You'd be better off scrounging for loose change - or waiting in line to get a job - than trying to earn any real money, money you could support a family on, from powerball.

Sorry to burst the bubble.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2014, 11:06:04 PM »
Even with that, realize that there are still at least three people unemployed for every job opening. At the peak of the recession, it was as high as six. There's more than a gap in skills or geography in play here. There are simply too few jobs to go around.

I have heard a statistic that states for the average job opening, the chances of any individual person getting that job are 1 in 70. You literally have a better chance of making money off Powerball.



there are plenty of jobs out there that are going unfilled right now.  Just on monster.com, and just for New York, there are 1,000+ open listings, for everything from technicians at Grumman to software developers and beyond:  http://jobsearch.monster.com/New-York_1?sf=18.543&re=nv_gh_gnl1147_%2FAdvancedSearch.aspx

Where's this shortage of jobs?  Or perhaps those 100 people per 1 job events are long tails, the titillating exceptions to the rule?

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 03:27:05 PM »

there are plenty of jobs out there that are going unfilled right now.  Just on monster.com, and just for New York, there are 1,000+ open listings, for everything from technicians at Grumman to software developers and beyond:  http://jobsearch.monster.com/New-York_1?sf=18.543&re=nv_gh_gnl1147_%2FAdvancedSearch.aspx

Where's this shortage of jobs?  Or perhaps those 100 people per 1 job events are long tails, the titillating exceptions to the rule?
1,000 open jobs in a state of 18 million people is not exactly a big proportion. Granted, that doesn't include all of the jobs out there.

I suspect that the 1 in 70 statistic is also due to people applying for multiple jobs in short order, something made easier by technology. That statistic is not only based on those "outlier" events. It came from a local news story I read a couple of months ago in which a career recruiter explained the hiring process: for any job opening, 70 applicants apply. Of those, 20 are typically the most qualified for the job. They then pick three who get an interview, then choose one for the job.

From personal experience, I've found examples where they let people have jobs that didn't even qualify for it. I was on the losing end of that; I qualified, and applied, for meteorology jobs only to have the HR director hire some buxom blonde "journalist" with no weather background for the position. It's part of the reason I gave up and stuck to retail, where I still am.

If a person is consistently getting interviews, they will eventually get a decent paying job. Yet most people can't get that far, even if they are totally qualified (and given the stringent and specialized qualifications for most anything that pays decent these days, even that is hard to do).
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 10:39:19 PM »
1,000 open jobs in a state of 18 million people is not exactly a big proportion. Granted, that doesn't include all of the jobs out there.

I suspect that the 1 in 70 statistic is also due to people applying for multiple jobs in short order, something made easier by technology. That statistic is not only based on those "outlier" events. It came from a local news story I read a couple of months ago in which a career recruiter explained the hiring process: for any job opening, 70 applicants apply. Of those, 20 are typically the most qualified for the job. They then pick three who get an interview, then choose one for the job.

From personal experience, I've found examples where they let people have jobs that didn't even qualify for it. I was on the losing end of that; I qualified, and applied, for meteorology jobs only to have the HR director hire some buxom blonde "journalist" with no weather background for the position. It's part of the reason I gave up and stuck to retail, where I still am.

If a person is consistently getting interviews, they will eventually get a decent paying job. Yet most people can't get that far, even if they are totally qualified (and given the stringent and specialized qualifications for most anything that pays decent these days, even that is hard to do).

Quite honestly, even if there is a surplus of bodies, if they collectively lack sufficient skilled members to fill the jobs that need filling, then we have no choice but to bring in those who can do the jobs, unless we want to cut off our economic nose to spite our face.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2014, 01:14:28 AM »
It's neither morally or civically acceptable for the U.S. government to ignore the plight of 22 million Americans who desperately need jobs while acting to actively pursue a policy that imports more workers to compete with the unemployed for scarce jobs and use this imported labor to drive down wages?  Amnesty pushers are actively seeking to destroy American citizens lives, the middle class and the nation for no more than lobbyist bribes and a lust for power.  It is not just to import large numbers of foreign workers at the expense of native-born minorities and deny our own young people the entry-level jobs they need to develop a work ethic and begin to climb the economic ladder?  It's immoral to offer the American Dream to massive numbers of illegal foreign invaders at the cost of our own country and our own economy.

This is what is wrong with the current crop of people running this country, its all about bribes and personal power.  The amnesty pushers are doing the bidding of those who have bribed them to take American jobs from American citizens and give them to low wage foreign invaders. the fact that it will destroy America and create a permanent Democrat majority and make us a version of what those people are leaving - a third world nation - matters not to these crooks and thieves.  Here in Arizona formerly well-paying construction jobs ($20 - $25 an hour were driven down to $8 an hour due to illegals driving the former workers out of jobs... oh and the quality suffered accordingly...  the working class in this country is getting crushed.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 01:15:06 AM by Rapunzel »
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2014, 10:34:08 AM »
It's neither morally or civically acceptable for the U.S. government to ignore the plight of 22 million Americans who desperately need jobs while acting to actively pursue a policy that imports more workers to compete with the unemployed for scarce jobs and use this imported labor to drive down wages?  Amnesty pushers are actively seeking to destroy American citizens lives, the middle class and the nation for no more than lobbyist bribes and a lust for power.  It is not just to import large numbers of foreign workers at the expense of native-born minorities and deny our own young people the entry-level jobs they need to develop a work ethic and begin to climb the economic ladder?  It's immoral to offer the American Dream to massive numbers of illegal foreign invaders at the cost of our own country and our own economy.

This is what is wrong with the current crop of people running this country, its all about bribes and personal power.  The amnesty pushers are doing the bidding of those who have bribed them to take American jobs from American citizens and give them to low wage foreign invaders. the fact that it will destroy America and create a permanent Democrat majority and make us a version of what those people are leaving - a third world nation - matters not to these crooks and thieves.  Here in Arizona formerly well-paying construction jobs ($20 - $25 an hour were driven down to $8 an hour due to illegals driving the former workers out of jobs... oh and the quality suffered accordingly...  the working class in this country is getting crushed.



but it's morally and civilly acceptable for the US government to do nothing when millions of Americans don't have health insurance or decent health care?  Fascinating.


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Re: Exclusive — Study Blows 'Labor Shortage' Claim Out Of The Water
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2014, 04:17:37 PM »


but it's morally and civilly acceptable for the US government to do nothing when millions of Americans don't have health insurance or decent health care?  Fascinating.


Doesn't even make sense...and I think you know it...
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776


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