THIS is why I'm fed up with the PCUSA

[mountaineer]

They've finally outdone themselves in a way never imagined possible. Jumped the shark. The final straw. The last hurrah.

Prayers to Allah offered at PCUSA’s General Assembly plenary session
 Jun 22  2016
 by Paula R. Kincaid

“Allah bless us and bless our families and bless our Lord. Lead us on the straight path – the path of all the prophets: Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad,” and so went the prayer offered up by Wajidi Said, from the Portland Muslim Community, as part of the “first order of business” during the opening plenary session of the 222nd General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA).

Wajidi was taking part in the assembly’s scheduled time of remembrance for those killed in the recent Orlando terrorist attack and those killed last year in the shooting at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in downtown Charleston, S.C.

“In the days leading up to this assembly we all know that our nation’s peace has once again been ripped apart by an act of mass violence,” said Heath Rada, moderator of the 221st General Assembly, when introducing it.

The violence, he said, “tore at each of our hearts as it reminded us of too many tragedies and too many victims. We are all touched by the tragedy of violence in some way. Being from North Carolina, I am reminded of the Chapel Hill shooting of Muslims, and I am concerned of course as I recognize that yesterday was the one-year anniversary of the shootings at AME church in Charleston.”

Rada said that Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons requested the staff leadership of the PCUSA’s ecumenical and interfaith ministries — Robina Winbush, Laurie Anderson, Rick Ufford-Chase and Laurie Kraus, — “ to provide for us as a first order of business an opportunity to lift up these tragedies that are so much on our minds.”

Taking part in the time of remembrance was Donnie Woods, general presbyter of Charleston-Atlantic Presbytery, Dan Williams, general presbyter of Central Florida Presbytery, Terry McCrae Hill of Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Portland, and Eliana Maxim of Seattle Presbytery.

Beginning in Arabic, Said then switched to English and prayed:

    “Allah bless us and bless our families and bless our Lord. Lead us on the straight path – the path of all the prophets: Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Peace be upon them all Amen.

    “In the name of Allah, the beneficent, the merciful, let us praise the Lord. The creator of the universe, the most merciful, the most compassionate and the Lord of the universe who has created us and made us into nations and tribes, from male and females that we may know each other, not that we might despise each other, or may despise each other. Incline towards peace and justice and trust in God, for the Lord is one that hears and knows everything and the servants of God, the most compassionate, the most merciful, gracious are those who walk in the earth in humility and when bigots and hateful and Islamaphobes address them, they say peace. Peace be upon them and peace be upon Allah.”

Story and video at Presbyterian Layman

@musiclady

[musiclady]

Wow.  They're not even pretending to be Christian any more.  The have truly gone over to the dark side......


btw, thanks for the "ping" @mountaineer

[mountaineer]

btw, thanks for the "ping" @mountaineer

We've been attending an EPC church for the past several months. It's better for the blood pressure!

[Oceander]

They have gone off the deep end if they're now referring to Jesus as just one of the prophets.  The gist of Christianity is that Jesus - Christ - is the Messiah, and not just another prophet.

[mountaineer]

I agree that they're stealing - or at least extorting - the property of congregations who try to leave. My old congregation has dwindled to a few dozen, and I doubt they have the energy or strength to try to leave the PCUSA, which already knows the church has a $1 million+ endowment. So if they tried to leave the denomination, they'd have to pay a whopping "ransom."

PCUSA is all about money and progressive politics - not the Bible.

[musiclady]

We've been attending an EPC church for the past several months. It's better for the blood pressure!

Good for you!  We've had to leave our church, but the EPC is a REAL Presbyterian denomination, unlike the travesty that now exists in the shell of the PCUSA.

They are no longer Christian in any sense of the word.

[mountaineer]

Remind me again the difference between EPC and PCA.  I know about PCUSA.  I know about PCA.  It is the EPC that I know little about.  It might be the denomination my neighbors choose.  I can't remember.

The major difference that comes to mind is that PCA doesn't permit females as elders or teachers. EPC says it's up to the congregation. EPC doesn't regulate the individual congregations quite as much as the PCA.

[mountaineer]

UPDATE: At the conclusion of the afternoon plenary on Wednesday, June 22, the Stated Clerk of the General Assembly, Rev. Gradye Parsons, offered an apology. He said that he had become aware that some had found the prayer on Saturday offensive. Parsons said that sometimes mistakes can be made in ecumenical relationships and stated it was not intentional. “It was never the intention to offend anyone, and we offer an apology to those who were offended.”

 

[musiclady]

UPDATE: At the conclusion of the afternoon plenary on Wednesday, June 22, the Stated Clerk of the General Assembly, Rev. Gradye Parsons, offered an apology. He said that he had become aware that some had found the prayer on Saturday offensive. Parsons said that sometimes mistakes can be made in ecumenical relationships and stated it was not intentional. “It was never the intention to offend anyone, and we offer an apology to those who were offended.”

 

Ah yes, a typical leftist "good intentions" meme with the obligatory faulting of the ones who were offended without repenting for the offense.

These things aren't going to work when they come before a Holy God on Judgment Day.

[mountaineer]

You really can't make this stuff up!

Gradye Parsons and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Apology
Posted on June 25, 2016   by mateenelass


Two days ago I reported on the travesty which occurred last Saturday in Portland at the 222nd General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church USA. Stated Clerk Gradye Parsons had asked some of his denominational employees to fashion a short worship service to commemorate the lives of shooting victims in Charleston and Orlando, and it was the first agenda item on the docket for Saturday afternoon. parsonsThe leadership deliberately designed this service not simply as an ecumenical affair (inviting leaders from other Christian denominations to help lead) but also as an interfaith event (inviting one leader from an anti-Christian religion — Islam).

Not surprisingly, the Muslim man, Wajdi Said, led the assembly  in a prayer in Arabic from the Qur’an,  and then proceeded to speak a prayer to Allah in English seeking the conversion of all there to Islam, and demoting Jesus to a status equal to other prophets, including non-biblical ones (Ishmael and Muhammad). The final part of the liturgy he read was something he, together with the denominational designers, must have created — it was a prayer based on four passages from the Qur’an (there was nothing recognizable from the Bible), and was in printed form as well as projected on screen for the assembly.

There was no visible negative reaction from the assembly, but a few days later the Stated Clerk received a protest letter written by a Korean Presbyterian and signed by 25 Assembly commissioners ( just under 5% of the 594 registered commissioners), drawing attention to the disgraceful judgment of those who had planned and permitted this act of casual blasphemy.

On Wednesday afternoon, Parsons read what has billed as an apology concerning the matter (the apology begins at the 2:44:54 mark of the linked video). It was carefully scripted, intending to ease hurt feelings without accepting any responsibility. Even the timing seemed planned to convey disdain for those who’d lodged the protest. At the end of business, just before the dinner break, the moderator called for announcements as commissioners were packing up. She turned things over to the Stated Clerk, who first announced that colorful ribbons could still be attached to prayer nets around the plenary hall. Then he gave directions for the community dinner about to start in the Portland Room. Then he paused, and without a word of introduction or explanation launched into the reading of his prepared statement as a final announcement:

“During the interfaith prayer service on Saturday in response to the killings in Charleston and Orlando, a prayer was offered that went beyond what had been scripted. It was an offense of the head, not of the heart; it came from one seeking to be authentically gracious, as part of the healing service. Some commissioners found it offensive. When in relationship with people of other faiths, sometimes we can inadvertently be offensive when meaning to be sensitive and ecumenical. It was never the intention of the one offering the prayer to offend any of us. Nevertheless, we offer an apology to all those who were offended.”

What is wrong with this terrible, horrible, no good, very bad apology? Where do I begin?

First, the fact that this statement was relegated to the obscurity of announcements at the end of the afternoon, when the least number of listeners would be there, without any advance notice or introduction, shows the lack of importance this matter held in the Stated Clerk’s mind. It is an silent snub of the protesters, disdainful of their viewpoint.

Second, either out of ignorance or intentionally for reasons of obfuscation, Gradye seems to equate “interfaith” and “ecumenical,” but the latter deals with relations among those of the same faith, whereas the former deals with relations among those of different faiths. By doing this, he hides the fact that he and his team concocted the plan to allow a follower of Allah to lead Presbyterians in a prayer dishonoring to the Trinity.

Third, in this “apology,” you’ll notice that Gradye never mentions exactly what the offense was, only that the one who prayed “went beyond what was scripted.” The implication is that if only he had stuck to the script, everything would have been all right. Is he really so spiritually tone-deaf as not to realize that inviting a Muslim, or any follower of a different god, to lead Christians in worship, is just plain wrong from a biblical point of view, regardless of the script followed? He never admits that his team came up with this idea, and didn’t see anything wrong with it.

Fourth, he exempts Mr. Said from any serious blame by saying he was trying to be authentically gracious, and that this was an offense of the head, not of the heart (whatever that means). I suppose by this Gradye is saying that when Mr. Said prayed to Allah that all the assembly be led to the “straight path”, thereby becoming Muslims, he really believed this to be the best option for Christians (who otherwise will end up in hell according to Islam), so he was being both authentic and gracious as a Muslim.

Fifth, when Gradye reports that only “some commissioners” found this situation offensive he implies there is room for doubt as to whether any transgression really occurred — perhaps it was just in the minds of the “super-sensitive” that a wrong happened, and ruffled feathers can be smoothed with some conciliatory words. But in fact, the true implication is that if most commissioners did not find this offensive, then indeed as Marcellus says in Shakespeare’s Hamlet, “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.” The PCUSA has much greater problems than one instance of blasphemous outrage at a General Assembly.

Lastly, and most egregiously, Gradye places the focus of blame upon Mr. Said. although he essentially excuses him by implying that “Muslims do what Muslims do — what else would you expect? He meant well, after all.” By doing this, he shifts attention away from his own wrongdoing of approving the invitation in the first place, and appears magnanimous in offering an apology on behalf of the misguided Muslim. And what is the apology? “We regret that you felt offended,” not, “We repent for having done something truly offensive to God and to His believing family.”

When I heard Gradye’s terrible, horrible, no good, very bad apology, I couldn’t help remembering the golden calf incident in Exodus 32.   ...

Rest of blog entry by Mateen Elass, an Arab Reformed theologian.

[mountaineer]

Liberal PCUSA leaders engage in personal attacks on Mateen Elass for what he wrote (above post). He responds here.

[mountaineer]

Here they go again:

Presbyterians support black reparations, free education, income guarantees
by Gregory Tomlin | 20 October, 2016

LOUISVILLE, Kentucky (Christian Examiner) – The Presbyterian Church (USA), which has been hemorrhaging members since it began pressing for gay clergy and same-sex marriage almost a decade ago, is now aligning itself with a radical "social justice" group which demands the government pay reparations to all blacks in the form of free education and income.

On Oct. 19, the denomination's news service reported that the church's Israel/Palestine Mission Network (IPMN) endorsed the platform of the group calling itself the Movement for Black Lives (MBL).

IPMN itself is a social justice organization. Its chief spokesman, Bob Ross, associate professor of global cultural studies at Point Park University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, has written on the growth of "U.S. Imperialism" in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. He said IPMN endorsed MBL because the struggle blacks in America face is the same as the struggle the Palestinians face for liberation from Israel.

"These justice struggles are linked in that the people of Palestine are in solidarity with black people in America struggling for freedom, justice and equality," Ross said. "The black struggle and the Palestinian struggle for justice are not just parallels, but they're struggles where there is an exchange of ideas."   ...

More at Christian Examiner.
 :nometalk:

[mountaineer]

From the "it never ends" files:

PCUSA Apologizes for Boarding School Abuses in Alaska

By Lisa Demer, Alaska Dispatch News. For the first time, a church organization has apologized to the Alaska Federation of Natives for its treatment of Native people and especially for abuses in boarding schools.

The Presbyterian Church’s national general assembly agreed in June, at the prompting of Alaskans, to issue an apology to all Native Americans abused, mistreated or diminished through church schools and boarding schools or otherwise.

An expression of sorrow for long-ago wrongs was delivered in person at the AFN convention on Saturday by the Rev. Curt Karns, the Anchorage-based executive presbyter – or administrator – of the Presbytery of the Yukon.

“To those individuals who were physically, sexually and emotionally abused as students of the Indian boarding schools in which the (Presbyterian Church USA) was involved, we offer you our most sincere apology. You did nothing wrong; you were and are the victims of evil acts that cannot under any circumstances be justified or excused,” Karns told the AFN convention.

The apology was a notable moment on the final day of the convention at the Carlson Center. Delegates also considered some 35 resolutions on everything from Chukchi Sea polar bears to the need for tribal courts to food security — which some village residents said needs to encompass the importance of walrus hunts, reindeer herding and other rural practices.  ...

More.

[driftdiver]

They've finally outdone themselves in a way never imagined possible. Jumped the shark. The final straw. The last hurrah.Story and video at Presbyterian Layman

@musiclady

@mountaineer

I once served as an elder in a PCUSA church.   I learned enough in that one year to leave PCUSA.  Dropped my key on the table and walked out.  This was during the first votes to allow gays in clergy and to allow gay marriage. 

Doesn't surprise me they are allowing this to happen.

[mountaineer]

I was clerk of session when my husband (also an elder) and I walked out, @driftdiver
Now nothing surprises me.

[musiclady]

@mountaineer

I once served as an elder in a PCUSA church.   I learned enough in that one year to leave PCUSA.  Dropped my key on the table and walked out.  This was during the first votes to allow gays in clergy and to allow gay marriage. 

Doesn't surprise me they are allowing this to happen.

That's when our church pulled out of the PCUSA and joined the EPC........ before the mass exodus which followed.

Since then, unfortunately, we've had to leave that church and I find myself returning to my Baptist roots.

It was very freeing to get out from under the leftist domination of a once strong Christian organization.  When you have a deliberate policy that social concerns supersede Scriptural commands, it's pretty clear what direction the denomination is headed.

[geronl]

I don't see why a church needs  bureaucracy

[mountaineer]

I don't see why a church needs  bureaucracy

The PCUSA bureaucracy is beyond comprehension, and I quite agree with you.  I don't believe the EPC comes anywhere near the same level (we now attend an EPC church).

[mountaineer]

This should surprise absolutely no one.

PCUSA Official Spreads Divisive Post-Election Discourse
Peter Johnson
Nov. 17, 2016
Juicy Ecumenism

The newly selected Stated Clerk of the Presbyterian Church in the USA (PCUSA), Rev. Dr. J Herbert Nelson II, recently released a statement about the presidential election entitled, “When Incivility Becomes the Norm.”

Nelson characterized his missive as a “response to the violence on America’s streets after the election of Mr. Donald Trump as President–Elect of the United States of America.” One might think, upon reading this introduction, that the venerable Reverend Doctor would be making an appeal for peace and calm. After all, peaceful protests are a proud legacy of the church, while violence and riots are generally discouraged by Christians.

Unfortunately, Rev. Dr. Nelson failed to discourage the violent protests even once in his 2000+ word letter (replete with seven footnotes). Instead, he declared his hope that the protests would pave the way for a particular public policy agenda that he favors.

He concedes that “President-Elect Trump is our newly elected leader,” but also characterizes the election as undemocratic and rigged by corporate interests. He also exhorts churches to undermine a not-yet-formulated immigration policy of the President-elect by harboring deportees in their “basements.”

The only instances where Rev. Dr. Nelson explicitly mentions violence is when he links Trump to an imagined future violence: “pain, suffering, and yes, death, which will be wrought by the promised policies of the incoming administration.”

At the heart of the letter is Rev. Dr. Nelson’s vision for “coalition building and community organizing, [where] we have an opportunity to create a vision of shared prosperity, safety, dignity, and justice that is truly inclusive and compelling to a broad base.”

The irony is completely lost on the PCUSA leader that a church that fails to be compelling to its own congregants—as evidenced by the steady exodus from the denomination—is now dispensing advice on how to grow a winning constituent base in politics. The denomination is becoming a parody of itself.  ...

Rest of article.