Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now

[Gazoo]

Why do we have to help the world laugh at us?  Really, what happened to love of country over love of politics?

I am not now nor would I ever suggest, recommend, or hint at allowing Obama (or any president) to do whatever they want.  I'm all for Congress and the people taking a president to the woodshed.  But does it always have to be a public spectacle....feeding a global joke at our own expense?

I think the pundit and political class are going too far by actually helping to promote Obama (read:  the United States) as the world's clown.  This is not comic relief or political payback.  This is dangerous.   And, I say this as an American first.

The world, for the most part is Euro-Socialistic/marxist/communist and adored Obama. So what, if Obama and (marxist fascist socialism) is world wide seen for what it is. a joke! If we don't call it what it is then that is frightening. Because as an ex KGB-USSR spy said, after defecting to America-there is no where to go in fear of tyranny after America.

[Rapunzel]

BTW remember who we are dependent on to get to the space station - thanks to Obama.........

[Right_in_Virginia]

So what, if Obama and (marxist fascist socialism) is world wide seen for what it is. a joke!
If we don't call it what it is then that is frightening. Because as an ex KGB-USSR spy said, after defecting to America-there is no where to go in fear of tyranny after America.

But "Marxists fascist socialism" is not seen as the joke.  The United States of America is seen as the joke. I am merely asking you to remember when this nation is viewed as a joke we are ALL vulnerable---very, very vulnerable.   And that's not funny at all.

As for the rest of your post .... well, I will admit I have no idea the point you're making.

But thanks.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Do you really think the world would find Obama's actions any the less deserving of ridicule if the American public simply stayed mum and said nothing?  i find that hard to believe.

Is this what you think I've been saying?

[Gazoo]

But "Marxists fascist socialism" is not seen as the joke.  The United States of America is seen as the joke. I am merely asking you to remember when this nation is viewed as a joke we are ALL vulnerable---very, very vulnerable.   And that's not funny at all.

As for the rest of your post .... well, I will admit I have no idea the point you're making.

But thanks.

We are going to have to agree to disagree as it it obvious we are not understanding each other. As far as you not understanding the second part of my post. An ex KGB- USSR=communist- spook, defected to the US and this is what he had to say 29 years ago warning us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nXvScRazg

[Right_in_Virginia]

We are going to have to agree to disagree

That's a given, dear.  And, again...thanks.

[Oceander]

Is this what you think I've been saying?

That is what you have been saying.  How else am I, an ordinary private citizen, to express my disapproval of Obama and his conduct, other than publicly?  Shall I write him a nice letter - on paper even - and mail it to him?  Shall I send him an email?  Shall I telephone him?  Shall I instead telephone, mail, or email my Congressional representatives and ask them to express my disagreement to Obama?  And how shall I join with other like-minded people to voice our collective criticism of Obama?  Shall we meet in secret?

Except for a so-called "existential situation" where the existence of the US, or of a truly vital US interest, is at stake, I will not simply stand with the president no matter how much I might disagree with him or her simply because he or she is the president.

[Right_in_Virginia]

That is what you have been saying.  How else am I, an ordinary private citizen, to express my disapproval of Obama and his conduct, other than publicly?  Shall I write him a nice letter - on paper even - and mail it to him?  Shall I send him an email?  Shall I telephone him?  Shall I instead telephone, mail, or email my Congressional representatives and ask them to express my disagreement to Obama?  And how shall I join with other like-minded people to voice our collective criticism of Obama?  Shall we meet in secret? 

I mentioned over and over again that pundits and politicians taking to the airwaves and publically ridiculing (not just disagreeing with) Obama is not helpful.  It is hurting this nation and her citizens in ways that cannot be qualified. 

I'm all for expressing "disapproval" of any president, but I would like our political leaders to do more.  I'd like them to offer a different strategy to the president and the American people -- if only so Putin and his ilk know despite Obama we are still here...we are still strong ...and that will not change.  We need to demand this from our representatives.  Yes, phone calls, emails, letters are all in play.  And no, secrecy will not help.

The comedy skits I've been watching all over the airwaves are destructive.  There has to be something left standing if we are to survive this regime.  Now is the time for serious opposition with serious alternatives.  Now is the time to neuter this President--not with ridicule which feeds our enemies --- but with a clear and different strategy---one that will earn the vocal support of the American people.

The comic relief can come later.

[EC]

RiV - I respectfully disagree.

Comedy first. Get the ridicule firmly lodged in the average voters mind, then immediately follow up with practical and well thought out solutions. Think of the comedy as a bombardment before an attack (if you like WW1 metaphors).

But you are right. Conservatives can't just point and laugh, they need actual ways to solve the problem.

[alicewonders]

Mockery is a classic tactic of the left, used mercilessly to destroy those on our side that they most fear.  I want to see Obama mocked so severely, absolutely without an iota of mercy, until even the morons that voted for him are embarassed to admit it. 

He's down now, we must not go weak - we must keep our boot on his neck until he rolls his little bony ass into a fetal position from which he cannot stand up from!  Yes, it makes us look stupid too, BUT WE ARE!  The media has got to feel the heat from this too - they have got to be made to look in the camera and gulp hard, knowing they are going to have to try to make him look at least substandard. 

Listen, the rest of the world already knows what a complete mess his foreign policy is - the best we can hope for is to neuter him for the next three years and hope we can get a good clean-up guy in after that.  That's the best we can do at this point.  It's going to be hard to watch, but this guy's gotta fall - and he's got to fall HARD!

[Oceander]

I mentioned over and over again that pundits and politicians taking to the airwaves and publically ridiculing (not just disagreeing with) Obama is not helpful.  It is hurting this nation and her citizens in ways that cannot be qualified. 

I'm all for expressing "disapproval" of any president, but I would like our political leaders to do more.  I'd like them to offer a different strategy to the president and the American people -- if only so Putin and his ilk know despite Obama we are still here...we are still strong ...and that will not change.  We need to demand this from our representatives.  Yes, phone calls, emails, letters are all in play.  And no, secrecy will not help.

The comedy skits I've been watching all over the airwaves are destructive.  There has to be something left standing if we are to survive this regime.  Now is the time for serious opposition with serious alternatives.  Now is the time to neuter this President--not with ridicule which feeds our enemies --- but with a clear and different strategy---one that will earn the vocal support of the American people.

The comic relief can come later.

Standing comes, or goes, based on the leader and his actions, not on what the people - including the mass media - have to say.  Ronald Reagan managed to be quite effective, notwithstanding the comedic relief

It's about the leader, not about the peanut gallery

[Oceander]

RiV - I respectfully disagree.

Comedy first. Get the ridicule firmly lodged in the average voters mind, then immediately follow up with practical and well thought out solutions. Think of the comedy as a bombardment before an attack (if you like WW1 metaphors).

But you are right. Conservatives can't just point and laugh, they need actual ways to solve the problem.

But liberals can?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Mockery is a classic tactic of the left, used mercilessly to destroy those on our side that they most fear.  I want to see Obama mocked so severely, absolutely without an iota of mercy, until even the morons that voted for him are embarassed to admit it.

Mockery, while a political weapon that has its place, will empower Putin-- not stop him from replacing us in the world order.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Standing comes, or goes, based on the leader and his actions, not on what the people - including the mass media - have to say.  Ronald Reagan managed to be quite effective, notwithstanding the comedic relief

It's about the leader, not about the peanut gallery

How do we stop Putin?

[Rapunzel]

How do we stop Putin?

Their economy.  IF we had a president so inclined (I don't think we do) and a Europe so inclined (we don't)..... all they have is their oil and natural gas sales. Europe not wanting to be dependent on the ME went against Reagan and agreed to the pipelines from Russia to Europe making Europe dependent on Russia for Oil and gas. Poland is now fracking and is closer to Europe anyway.. help Poland get their fracking really going and pipelines built.......

However........  if I was Poland I would be really worried Russia will come for me to keep me from doing what I suggested, but they are part of NATO...

All in all Obama does not know how to play chess, Bush wrongly trusted Putin and he has played us and the world like a fine guitar.

[alicewonders]

How do we stop Putin?

I'm not sure that we can stop Putin right now.  We're not really strong enough and we don't have the capable leadership to pull it off.  I don't think Europe has the wherewithall to help either, they've been flailing too.  Putin is an opportunist and he sees an opening.  As far as making America look weak.........................it's too late.  We are weakened and from my view America is on her last legs.  We'll see what happens in the elections this year, but I'm frankly pessimistic.  We are desperate for leadership.  Who will be able to step up to that plate?  I love America too, but that America is almost gone - the America we have now is not much to be proud of, I'm sad to say.

[Oceander]

How do we stop Putin?

Put a hurtin' on his cronies.  Put a hurtin' on the Ruble and Russia's cash cow, it's petro exports.  Start by freezing the assets of wealthy Russians.  That will get their attention but fast and they will start to question their continued support of Putin if they cannot get to the assets they've squirreled overseas.  Replace the $15b Ukraine borrowed from Russia prior to the overthrow and let Ukraine reneg on that debt.  Russia and its banks end up holding worthless paper.  Provide bridge loans that will allow Ukraine to wean itself off the natural gas subsidies it's been getting from Russia.  Put a freeze on continued imports of natural gas from Russia.

Russia has already had to up the interest rate on its sovereign debt to keep the ruble from tanking, so there is plenty of room to push, and push hard, to make the rest of Russia squeal hard enough that Putin has to back off.

The WSJ, for one, has some interesting articles on these matters, from which I've cribbed.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Thanks for your replies ... I too see economic hurt as a strong weapon here.

Let's hope the EU clicks into gear on this.

[Lipstick on a Hillary]

Do you really think the world would find Obama's actions any the less deserving of ridicule if the American public simply stayed mum and said nothing?  i find that hard to believe.


Is this what you think I've been saying?

I'm late to this thread, but that's exactly how I interpreted it, too.

[Lipstick on a Hillary]

Mockery is a classic tactic of the left, used mercilessly to destroy those on our side that they most fear.  I want to see Obama mocked so severely, absolutely without an iota of mercy, until even the morons that voted for him are embarassed to admit it. 

He's down now, we must not go weak - we must keep our boot on his neck until he rolls his little bony ass into a fetal position from which he cannot stand up from!  Yes, it makes us look stupid too, BUT WE ARE!  The media has got to feel the heat from this too - they have got to be made to look in the camera and gulp hard, knowing they are going to have to try to make him look at least substandard.

You mean like this?

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm late to this thread, but that's exactly how I interpreted it, too.

Color me shocked. 

[alicewonders]

You mean like this?

Yeah, like that!   

[musiclady]

I'm not sure that we can stop Putin right now.  We're not really strong enough and we don't have the capable leadership to pull it off.  I don't think Europe has the wherewithall to help either, they've been flailing too.  Putin is an opportunist and he sees an opening.  As far as making America look weak.........................it's too late.  We are weakened and from my view America is on her last legs.  We'll see what happens in the elections this year, but I'm frankly pessimistic.  We are desperate for leadership.  Who will be able to step up to that plate?  I love America too, but that America is almost gone - the America we have now is not much to be proud of, I'm sad to say.

 

[musiclady]

Their economy.  IF we had a president so inclined (I don't think we do) and a Europe so inclined (we don't)..... all they have is their oil and natural gas sales. Europe not wanting to be dependent on the ME went against Reagan and agreed to the pipelines from Russia to Europe making Europe dependent on Russia for Oil and gas. Poland is now fracking and is closer to Europe anyway.. help Poland get their fracking really going and pipelines built.......

However........  if I was Poland I would be really worried Russia will come for me to keep me from doing what I suggested, but they are part of NATO...

All in all Obama does not know how to play chess, Bush wrongly trusted Putin and he has played us and the world like a fine guitar.

Slight correction....

Bush trusted Putin early in his first term, but learned by Putin's subsequent behavior that he couldn't be trusted.

[Oceander]

Thanks for your replies ... I too see economic hurt as a strong weapon here.

Let's hope the EU clicks into gear on this.

That's about the only real solution now, but from what I've read it's also potentially a very powerful weapon if the will exists to use it.  any military action would, I think, have to be largely confined to quietly providing Ukraine with armaments and, possibly, giving them access to the military grade GPS if necessary.  Given that this is Russia we're dealing with, I don't even think a no-fly zone would be a realistic possibility.  All Putin would need to get Russians really riled up and ready to go would be video of a Russian helicopter or aircraft getting shot down over Crimea by a US or EU fighter or missile.  I think Putin would move very swiftly, very brutally, to complete the takeover of Ukraine, and possibly start menacing Poland, as a means of making the US/EU back off.