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Offline mystery-ak

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Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« on: March 04, 2014, 09:07:08 AM »
http://www.newsmax.com/PrintTemplate.aspx?nodeid=555860


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Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
Tuesday, March 4, 2014 06:53 AM

By: REUTERS

President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Russia saw no need to use military force in the Crimea region of Ukraine for now, in remarks apparently intended to ease East-West tension over fears of war in the former Soviet republic.

The use of force by Russia in Ukraine would be a choice of last resort, Putin said, and sanctions being considered against Moscow by the West would be counter-productive.

Putin told a news conference at his state residence outside Moscow there had been an "unconstitutional coup" in Ukraine and ousted leader Viktor Yanukovich, an ally of Russia, was still the legitimate leader of the country despite giving up all power.

Earlier on Tuesday, Putin ordered troops involved in a military exercise in western Russia, close to the border with Ukraine, back to their bases.

Russian financial markets rebounded after sharp falls on Monday, and the euro and dollar rose in Japan, though Moscow's forces remained in control of Ukraine's Crimea region, seized bloodlessly after Yanukovich was ousted last month.

Russia paid a heavy financial price on Monday for its military intervention in Ukraine, with stocks, bonds and the rouble plunging as Putin's forces tightened their grip in Crimea, whose population is mainly ethnic Russian.

The Moscow stock market fell more than 10 percent on Monday, wiping nearly $60 billion off the value of Russian firms, but Russian stock indexes rose more than 4 percent early on Tuesday before slipping back again slightly, though still up on the day.

Putin said the turmoil in Russian markets was a "tactical, temporary" decision by investors.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will propose ways for a negotiation between Russia and Ukraine to be overseen by a multilateral organization when he visits Kiev on Tuesday.

NATO allies will hold emergency talks on the crisis on Tuesday, for the second time in three days.

In further pressure on Kiev, Russia's top gas producer Gazprom said it would remove a discount on gas prices for Ukraine from April, Interfax news agency cited the company's chief as saying on Tuesday.

However, Gazprom chief Alexei Miller also said the company could offer Ukraine a loan of $2-3 billion to pay off the country's debt of more than $1.5 billion after Ukraine said it was unable to pay in full for gas deliveries in February, Interfax news agency said.

Putin said at the weekend that he had the right to invade Ukraine to protect Russian interests and citizens after Yanukovich's downfall following months of popular unrest. Russia's Black Sea Fleet has a base in Crimea.

But the military exercises in central and western Russia, which began last week and raised fears that Russia might send forces to Russian-speaking regions of east Ukraine, were completed on schedule.

"The supreme commander of the armed forces of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin, gave the order for the troops and units, taking part in the military exercises, to return to their bases," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was quoted as saying by Russian news agencies.

Although the end of the exercises had been planned, the announcement sent a more conciliatory message than much of the rhetoric from Russian officials, who say Moscow must defend national interests and those of compatriots in Ukraine.

Putin is dismayed that the new leadership in Ukraine, the cradle of Russian civilization, has plotted a course towards the European Union and away from what had been Moscow's sphere of influence during generations of Soviet Communist rule.

Moscow's U.N. envoy told a stormy meeting of the Security Council that Yanukovich had sent a letter to Putin requesting he use Russia's military to restore law and order in Ukraine.

Ukraine said observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, a pan-European security body, would travel at its invitation to Crimea in an attempt to defuse the military standoff there.

The United States has begun spelling out its response to Russia's incursion, announcing a suspension of all military engagements with Russia, including military exercises and port visits, and freezing trade and investment talks with Moscow.

President Barack Obama met national security advisers on Monday to discuss how the United States and its allies could "further isolate" Russia, a White House official said.

"Over time this will be a costly proposition for Russia," Obama told reporters.

The State Department said the United States was preparing to impose sanctions on Russia, although no decisions had yet been made.

Members of the U.S. Congress are looking at options including sanctions on Russia's banks and freezing assets of Russian public institutions and private investors, but they said they wanted European states to step up their involvement.

A Kremlin aide said that if the United States did impose sanctions, Moscow might drop the dollar as a reserve currency and refuse to repay loans to U.S. banks.

An International Monetary Fund mission is in Kiev to discuss financial assistance for Ukraine to help it avoid bankruptcy. Kiev's new leaders want a financial package worth at least $15 billion, with a quick release of some of the cash.

The European Union has threatened unspecified "targeted measures" unless Russia returns its forces to their bases and opens talks with Ukraine's new government.

Western leaders have sent a barrage of warnings to Putin against armed action, threatening economic and diplomatic consequences, but are not considering a military response.

There was no immediate sign of any new movements by Russian forces in Crimea overnight although Ukraine's acting president said on Monday that Russia's military presence on the Black Sea peninsula was growing.

Ukrainian officials said Russia was building up armour on its side of the 4.5-km (2.7-mile) wide Kerch strait between the Crimean peninsula and southern Russia.

Russian forces shipped three truckloads of troops by ferry into Crimea after taking control of the border post on the Ukrainian side, Ukraine's border guards spokesman said.

Vladimir, a 50-year-old cab driver, said people do not want the Russians to leave.

"When they are here, it is safer," he said, voicing the opinions of some in the region who fear a return to the chaos in Ukraine after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Kiev's U.N. ambassador, Yuriy Sergeyev, said Russia had deployed roughly 16,000 troops to Crimea since last week.

Both sides have avoided bloodshed, but the market turmoil on Monday highlighted damage the crisis could wreak on Russia's vulnerable economy, making it harder to balance the budget and potentially undermining business and public support for Putin.

EU foreign ministers held out the threat of sanctions if Moscow fails to withdraw its troops from Ukraine, while offering to mediate, alongside other international bodies.

EU leaders will hold an emergency summit on Thursday.

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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 10:54:09 AM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-04/putin-says-no-need-yet-for-russia-to-send-troops-to-ukraine.html

Putin Says No Immediate Need to Invade Eastern Ukraine, Leaves Threat Dangling

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 10:55:38 AM »
So long as the US and Western Europe continue to give Putin for free what he would otherwise have to obtain by force, then there's no need to use force, obviously.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 11:04:32 AM »
Putin is pretty much in the catbird seat right now.  He knows no one is going to stop him, so there is no impetus to have to use force. 
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 12:09:11 PM »
Pooty-poot just blinked.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 12:12:21 PM »
Putin is pretty much in the catbird seat right now.  He knows no one is going to stop him, so there is no impetus to have to use force.

Disagree.

No one may stop him militarily .... but Putin knows he's facing a world of financial hurt if the EU and US stand firm.
And from today's developments he apparently thinks they will.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 12:19:14 PM »
Disagree.

No one may stop him militarily .... but Putin knows he's facing a world of financial hurt if the EU and US stand firm.
And from today's developments he apparently thinks they will.

I don't think Putin blinked, I think he realizes if he does things in small steps, he won't have to use force and everyone will back down and eventually he reconstructs the old Soviet Union.  He is playing chess. 
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 12:22:58 PM »
I don't think Putin blinked, I think he realizes if he does things in small steps, he won't have to use force and everyone will back down and eventually he reconstructs the old Soviet Union.  He is playing chess.

You don't know that.  Please stop portraying Putin as a mythical giant. 

He blinked.
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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 12:25:53 PM »
Disagree.

No one may stop him militarily .... but Putin knows he's facing a world of financial hurt if the EU and US stand firm.
And from today's developments he apparently thinks they will.

Maybe, maybe not.  Putin appears to be the master of the calibrated threat - getting what he wants degree by degree by keeping his threat level just below the point where he would incite a substantial reaction from the US or Europe.  He already has control over Crimea, so there isn't any real need to use military force there, and thus he's not giving away anything he already has by saying as much.  If he were to threaten the use of military force to immediately acquire more Ukrainian territory, he would almost certainly trigger a more robust reaction from the US and Europe, a response that could very well cause him to lose some or all of what he's already taken in Crimea.  Saying that he sees no need to use military force now simply lowers the level of tension, thereby easing the pressure on the US and Europe to act forcefully, making it more likely that he will keep what he already has even if he doesn't immediately gain more territory in Ukraine.

I could be wrong, but I would not be so quick to dismiss Putin as having blinked at this point.  Putin is the master of duplicity in geopolitical affairs - remember his oh-so-pious op-ed in the NYT during the Syria crisis precipitated by Obama?  He didn't mean a lick of that and yet he was taken seriously.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 12:28:07 PM »
You don't know that.  Please stop portraying Putin as a mythical giant. 

He blinked.

I guess time will tell.

I never portrayed Putin as a "mythical giant" - but compared to our own Obama - he is a jack-boot stepping on an ant.  Just something in the path.  Obama has reduced America to a weak and ineffectual laughing stock in the world.  He is the one that is a "mythical giant"..... to himself and to his followers. 
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Offline Gazoo

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 12:30:51 PM »
I don't think Putin blinked, I think he realizes if he does things in small steps, he won't have to use force and everyone will back down and eventually he reconstructs the old Soviet Union.  He is playing chess.

Plus Kerry just promised the Ukraine money and probably gave Russia some to stfu until after midterms. Kerry probably said, after the elections you can do whatever you want.

Sound familiar?
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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 12:31:27 PM »
You don't know that.  Please stop portraying Putin as a mythical giant. 

He blinked.

Please stop dismissing Putin so easily.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 12:32:17 PM »
Plus Kerry just promised the Ukraine money and probably gave Russia some to stfu until after midterms. Kerry probably said, after the elections you can do whatever you want.

Sound familiar?

Yep.   8888crybaby
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 12:43:42 PM »

Obama has reduced America to a weak and ineffectual laughing stock in the world.   

I'm going to offer a provocative suggestion:  Let's stop helping the world laugh at us.  Maybe tone down the editorials, pundits, blogs, et al.  Mocking Obama is deserved and fun ... but we'd be smart to remember that, like it or not, laughing it up at Obama's expense is ultimately laughing it up at OUR expense. 

Politics stopping at the water's edge is a useful tradition.  I think we need to take a second look at it. 

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 12:46:12 PM »
Please stop dismissing Putin so easily.

I don't dismiss him at all. 

I simply refuse to turn him into an unstoppable god simply because he rides a horse shirtless.
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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 12:51:11 PM »
I don't dismiss him at all. 

I simply refuse to turn him into an unstoppable god simply because he rides a horse shirtless.

Fair enough, but your statements are as unqualified as those you're criticizing.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 12:52:21 PM »
Fair enough, but your statements are as unqualified as those you're criticizing.

How so?
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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 12:56:06 PM »
I'm going to offer a provocative suggestion:  Let's stop helping the world laugh at us.  Maybe tone down the editorials, pundits, blogs, et al.  Mocking Obama is deserved and fun ... but we'd be smart to remember that, like it or not, laughing it up at Obama's expense is ultimately laughing it up at OUR expense. 

Politics stopping at the water's edge is a useful tradition.  I think we need to take a second look at it. 



I really do not think the world will stop laughing at us if we simply shut up and let Obama do whatever it is he's going to do in silence.  The world is laughing at us because of what Obama has already done and, to the extent ordinary Americans have helped them to laugh, it was because of our stupidity in re-electing him, not anything we might say at this juncture.  In point of fact, given that the mood of ordinary appears to be in favor of much more aggressive action than Obama has said he is willing to take, the world should be more concerned about what the US might do, not less concerned, given our outspokenness.  Furthermore, outspokenness is something one should want more of, not less; were ordinary Russians more willing - and more able - to speak up the situation might be better than it is right now.

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 12:56:34 PM »
How so?

"Putin blinked" is about as unqualified a statement as one will find on this thread.

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 01:03:29 PM »
I really do not think the world will stop laughing at us if we simply shut up and let Obama do whatever it is he's going to do in silence.  The world is laughing at us because of what Obama has already done and, to the extent ordinary Americans have helped them to laugh, it was because of our stupidity in re-electing him, not anything we might say at this juncture.  In point of fact, given that the mood of ordinary appears to be in favor of much more aggressive action than Obama has said he is willing to take, the world should be more concerned about what the US might do, not less concerned, given our outspokenness.  Furthermore, outspokenness is something one should want more of, not less; were ordinary Russians more willing - and more able - to speak up the situation might be better than it is right now.

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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2014, 01:06:13 PM »
I'm going to offer a provocative suggestion:  Let's stop helping the world laugh at us.  Maybe tone down the editorials, pundits, blogs, et al.  Mocking Obama is deserved and fun ... but we'd be smart to remember that, like it or not, laughing it up at Obama's expense is ultimately laughing it up at OUR expense. 

Politics stopping at the water's edge is a useful tradition.  I think we need to take a second look at it.

Yes, let's not rock the boat or pile on Obama.  Let's not fight battles we know we can't win.  Where have I heard that before?  I don't believe it is in our best interest to do anything to keep Obama or his enablers in power for one minute more.  To say that Obama is taking this country down isn't just politics - it's the facts.  If we don't speak up now, we may never get a chance to again.  People have got to wake up to this and I for one, will go down kicking and screaming - not peeking out the crack in the curtains in a darkened room as I watch them take my neighbor away, afraid to speak up lest I will attract attention to myself.  To call attention to Obama's weakness is to take him down yet another notch, another inch closer to getting rid of him and his.  I don't get this whole mantra of "just hold off for NOW, we'll regain strength through silence".   
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2014, 01:10:04 PM »
"Putin blinked" is about as unqualified a statement as one will find on this thread.

Okay.  Valid point.  And I stand by it.
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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2014, 01:11:03 PM »
Okay.  Valid point.  And I stand by it.

Fair enough; I'm happy to agree to disagree and see whom subsequent events vindicates.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2014, 01:22:30 PM »
I really do not think the world will stop laughing at us if we simply shut up and let Obama do whatever it is he's going to do in silence. 

Why do we have to help the world laugh at us?  Really, what happened to love of country over love of politics?

I am not now nor would I ever suggest, recommend, or hint at allowing Obama (or any president) to do whatever they want.  I'm all for Congress and the people taking a president to the woodshed.  But does it always have to be a public spectacle....feeding a global joke at our own expense?

I think the pundit and political class are going too far by actually helping to promote Obama (read:  the United States) as the world's clown.  This is not comic relief or political payback.  This is dangerous.   And, I say this as an American first.
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Re: Putin: No Need to Use Military Force in Ukraine for Now
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2014, 01:32:04 PM »
Why do we have to help the world laugh at us?  Really, what happened to love of country over love of politics?

I am not now nor would I ever suggest, recommend, or hint at allowing Obama (or any president) to do whatever they want.  I'm all for Congress and the people taking a president to the woodshed.  But does it always have to be a public spectacle....feeding a global joke at our own expense?

I think the pundit and political class are going too far by actually helping to promote Obama (read:  the United States) as the world's clown.  This is not comic relief or political payback.  This is dangerous.   And, I say this as an American first.

Yes, it does always have to be a "public spectacle" because if it isn't then it's nothing, it's simply sitting by silently and letting the president do what he pleases without criticism.  Freedom of speech, especially the freedom to criticise one's leaders, is always a "public spectacle" - that's why tyrants since time immemorial have attempted to suppress public criticism, precisely because it's public.

We made ourselves the laughing-stock that we are when we re-elected Obama; nothing else really matters because the real target of the world's ridicule is Obama's actions and his fecklessness, not the criticism we might voice.

Do you really think the world would find Obama's actions any the less deserving of ridicule if the American public simply stayed mum and said nothing?  i find that hard to believe.


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