Author Topic: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives  (Read 974 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« on: March 03, 2014, 10:28:24 AM »

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Offline MBB1984

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 10:54:21 AM »
Rubio's major problem is that when he was running for the Senate he was an outspoken critic of amnesty.  Shortly after he was elected, he wholeheartedly embraced Schmuck's amnesty package.  His prompt reversal of positions demonstrates he cannot be trusted.

When a candidate has no credibility he is just another politician.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 11:41:59 AM »
Rubio's major problem is that when he was running for the Senate he was an outspoken critic of amnesty.  Shortly after he was elected, he wholeheartedly embraced Schmuck's amnesty package.  His prompt reversal of positions demonstrates he cannot be trusted.

When a candidate has no credibility he is just another politician.

So you won't give any credit to a politician who changes - even more than once - because he learns something new, particularly when he goes from being a candidate to being an officeholder?  I'm not saying that Rubio is that sort of politician, all I'm saying is that such an unvarnished, unqualified statement risks throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

One might easily say that Rubio has changed course because he has quickly learned the lessons of listening more scrupulously to the wishes of his constituents, which would mean that he's a quick learner who's not afraid to admit his mistakes by changing his actions.  That is the sort of person we want as a politician in office, not the sort we should be throwing away.

Offline Relic

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 11:46:22 AM »
So you won't give any credit to a politician who changes - even more than once - because he learns something new, particularly when he goes from being a candidate to being an officeholder?  I'm not saying that Rubio is that sort of politician, all I'm saying is that such an unvarnished, unqualified statement risks throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

One might easily say that Rubio has changed course because he has quickly learned the lessons of listening more scrupulously to the wishes of his constituents, which would mean that he's a quick learner who's not afraid to admit his mistakes by changing his actions.  That is the sort of person we want as a politician in office, not the sort we should be throwing away.

It's possible that Rubio is a quick learner. It's also possible that Rubio learned to tell the people what they want to hear until he's in a position to ram his agenda down our throats.

Which is the case with Rubio? I have no idea. Do you? What are you willing to risk to find out?

Offline flowers

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 11:56:51 AM »
It's possible that Rubio is a quick learner. It's also possible that Rubio learned to tell the people what they want to hear until he's in a position to ram his agenda down our throats.

Which is the case with Rubio? I have no idea. Do you? What are you willing to risk to find out?
  :thumbsup:


Offline Oceander

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 12:02:29 PM »
It's possible that Rubio is a quick learner. It's also possible that Rubio learned to tell the people what they want to hear until he's in a position to ram his agenda down our throats.

Which is the case with Rubio? I have no idea. Do you? What are you willing to risk to find out?

I don't know because I haven't taken the time to review everything in detail.  What am I willing to risk to find out?  What are you willing to put up with to quench your fear of Rubio?  Are you willing to put up with Eric Cantor and the GOP's stupid attempt to recreate one of its own little entitlement programs by essentially repealing the reforms to the flood insurance program and reinstate all of the entitlement subsidies that existed under the system before it was reformed?  Also, as far as I'm concerned, immigration reform that includes legalization of current illegal aliens is an absolute necessity so I think it was very smart of Rubio to recognize that and to get off the high horse of knee-jerk anti-immigration reform.  On that count, I've already found Rubio to be better than the existing alternatives.

Offline Relic

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 12:12:59 PM »
On that count, I've already found Rubio to be better than the existing alternatives.

It's not easy. A lie is a lie is a lie. But in this realm, pragmatism is the only viable option.
I know I wouldn't vote to put Rubio in a higher position, until he proves he's not simply a liar with a hidden agenda.

I have no objection to creating a path to citizenship for current illegals. But, any solution without a serious attempt to stem the flow, be it arresting employers, or securing the border, is not a solution.

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 12:16:38 PM »
It's possible that Rubio is a quick learner. It's also possible that Rubio learned to tell the people what they want to hear until he's in a position to ram his agenda down our throats.

Which is the case with Rubio? I have no idea. Do you? What are you willing to risk to find out?

The tea party elected Rubio and he dissed joining the tea party caucus first thing upon his freshmen arrival.

So he is just weak (in cowering to the fat cat establishment)  and has the same ideals that elected him;or he is a complete phony.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:17:02 PM by Gazoo »
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Oceander

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 12:19:11 PM »
It's not easy. A lie is a lie is a lie. But in this realm, pragmatism is the only viable option.
I know I wouldn't vote to put Rubio in a higher position, until he proves he's not simply a liar with a hidden agenda.

I have no objection to creating a path to citizenship for current illegals. But, any solution without a serious attempt to stem the flow, be it arresting employers, or securing the border, is not a solution.

The real issue, other than legalization of currently in-country illegals, is how, and to what extent, one will, or can, "stem the flow."  It seems to me that a major part of reform has to be redirecting the flow, not simply trying to put a plug in it because the plug will never work to any substantial degree.  By redirecting the flow - i.e., providing guest worker visas - we would at least know who's coming in, where they're going, and have the ability to keep tabs on them.  That would allow us to promptly remove one of them if he/she proves to be a problem without having to engage in sweeps or meddling in peoples' private affairs, which is a large part of why many hispanics and other ethnics are opposed to the reforms proposed by the right.

Offline WAYNE

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 12:29:21 PM »
$300,00  or so divided by "up to $32,000 thou a plate "  What ? 15 , 20 people there?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 02:00:55 PM »
It's possible that Rubio is a quick learner. It's also possible that Rubio learned to tell the people what they want to hear until he's in a position to ram his agenda down our throats.

Which is the case with Rubio? I have no idea. Do you? What are you willing to risk to find out?

 goopo

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 02:02:19 PM »
The tea party elected Rubio and he dissed joining the tea party caucus first thing upon his freshmen arrival.

So he is just weak (in cowering to the fat cat establishment)  and has the same ideals that elected him;or he is a complete phony.

The TP ignored his record in the Florida Senate... we all ignored it because he was such an "attractive" and "well-spoken" candidate and Charlie Crist so dispicable and alternative.

Offline MBB1984

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 02:26:48 PM »
The TP ignored his record in the Florida Senate... we all ignored it because he was such an "attractive" and "well-spoken" candidate and Charlie Crist so dispicable and alternative.

Rubio was for amnesty before he was passionately against it and then did a complete politician's pirouette and was a zealous amnesty supporter yet again.  How many reversals will any intelligent Conservative accept in ONE politician?

We need to have Rubio in a solo debate performance so he can debate his multiple personality positions. 

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 02:28:49 PM »
Rubio was for amnesty before he was passionately against it and then did a complete politician's pirouette and was a zealous amnesty supporter yet again.  How many reversals will any intelligent Conservative accept in ONE politician?

We need to have Rubio in a solo debate performance so he can debate his multiple personality positions.

True....   Frankly it is sad, because he could have been an excellent candidate down the line, but it is a case of fool me once shame on you........

Online Fishrrman

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 11:05:23 PM »
[[ Also, as far as I'm concerned, immigration reform that includes legalization of current illegal aliens is an absolute necessity ]]

Well, that tells me all I need to know about with which branch of the Republican party you identify and associate. Seems to have the suffix "-e" attached to it!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 11:06:32 PM by Fishrrman »

Offline Oceander

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 12:28:54 AM »
[[ Also, as far as I'm concerned, immigration reform that includes legalization of current illegal aliens is an absolute necessity ]]

Well, that tells me all I need to know about with which branch of the Republican party you identify and associate. Seems to have the suffix "-e" attached to it!

That would be the same branch of the republican party Reagan came from, and that would be the party of principle and pragmatism, the side of the party that knows how to prioritize its goals and principles, knows what it can compromise on, and how far it can compromise, prefers reality to ideology, and understands that the goal of politics is to make everyone equally unhappy, but as least unhappy as possible, and that means that you have to take your lumps just as your opponents have to take theirs.

There are only two basic, fundamental choices with respect to immigration:  (1) deal with reality - there will always be those who want to come here to work - and manage that flow so that you can keep tabs on who comes in and can handily remove those who start causing problems, or (2) emulate the gestapo, with neighborhood sweeps and national identification papers that must be provided to federal immigration agents upon request.

Those are the two poles around which the various alternatives for immigration reform must revolve.  I really don't care for (2), so I'll eschew it in favor of (1).

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2014, 01:16:33 AM »
That would be the same branch of the republican party Reagan came from, and that would be the party of principle and pragmatism, the side of the party that knows how to prioritize its goals and principles, knows what it can compromise on, and how far it can compromise, prefers reality to ideology, and understands that the goal of politics is to make everyone equally unhappy, but as least unhappy as possible, and that means that you have to take your lumps just as your opponents have to take theirs.

Good thinking. IOW the intelligent and practical branch, focused on results.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline MBB1984

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2014, 01:25:38 PM »
[[ Also, as far as I'm concerned, immigration reform that includes legalization of current illegal aliens is an absolute necessity ]]

Well, that tells me all I need to know about with which branch of the Republican party you identify and associate. Seems to have the suffix "-e" attached to it!

Yes, indeed.   And on the illegal immigration issue, more than most all others, the survival of American culture and survival is at stake.

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 02:07:12 PM »
The TP ignored his record in the Florida Senate... we all ignored it because he was such an "attractive" and "well-spoken" candidate and Charlie Crist so dispicable and alternative.

Yup, pretty much!!

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 02:10:19 PM »
Yes, indeed.   And on the illegal immigration issue, more than most all others, the survival of American culture and survival is at stake.

It seems that the concept of a nation defending and sealing its own borders has become a bit of an anachronism to many.  Even though the world still has many that do just that, Mexico is an example of one....

Offline Oceander

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2014, 10:14:45 PM »
Yes, indeed.   And on the illegal immigration issue, more than most all others, the survival of American culture and survival is at stake.

You want to "save" American culture from being swamped by illegal immigrants?  Assuming arguendo that American culture is indeed at risk of being destroyed by illegal immigrants, what better way to turn things around by bringing them into American culture rather than the other way around?  Immerse them in American culture and let it soak into them.  How?  Legalization.  Right now the libs/progs keep them on the plantation and isolated from the rest of America because of the hyped-up threat of "the Immi" - immigration.  Further, by keeping them in the ghettoes - communities that are populated mostly with illegal immigrants, where spanish is the only, or the predominant, language spoken, current immigration law only abets libs/progs in keeping illegals on the plantation where they can be used as tools to do their masters' bidding.

Since the key to the plantation is the threat of The Immi, take that threat away and you unlock the plantation, you let them leave the ghettoes without fear of reprisal.  Once they can safely move out of the lib/prog plantations/ghettoes, they are no longer a concentrated group of like-minded people totally cut off from the broader culture, they are now participants in that culture, have been diluted by moving into non-illegal neighborhoods and finding jobs that aren't mostly done by illegals (e.g., lawn mowing), and those who want to get ahead will realize that the better way to get ahead is to blend yourself into the larger American culture.  That doesn't mean you deracinate yourself, but it does mean that you no longer see the broader culture as an adversary to be avoided, but as a tool to be used to help you live a better life.

Immigration reform that legalizes current illegal immigrants will protect American culture far better than some sort of East German style sealed border.

Offline evadR²

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2014, 10:31:53 PM »
It's possible that Rubio is a quick learner. It's also possible that Rubio learned to tell the people what they want to hear until he's in a position to ram his agenda down our throats.

Which is the case with Rubio? I have no idea. Do you? What are you willing to risk to find out?
I'm willing to risk him being a senator, and that's as far as it goes.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2014, 10:34:21 PM »

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2014, 03:09:55 AM »
I don't know because I haven't taken the time to review everything in detail.  What am I willing to risk to find out?  What are you willing to put up with to quench your fear of Rubio?  Are you willing to put up with Eric Cantor and the GOP's stupid attempt to recreate one of its own little entitlement programs by essentially repealing the reforms to the flood insurance program and reinstate all of the entitlement subsidies that existed under the system before it was reformed?  Also, as far as I'm concerned, immigration reform that includes legalization of current illegal aliens is an absolute necessity so I think it was very smart of Rubio to recognize that and to get off the high horse of knee-jerk anti-immigration reform.  On that count, I've already found Rubio to be better than the existing alternatives.
I couldn't agree more.  I want a politician who listens to his constituents and says I represent my state.  I want a politician who can recognize a mistake and admit it. Rubio wants a legal channel for millions of workers already working here and living here.  It is the right thing to do.  He has calculated that his vote was not favored by his state voters and probably considered how it plays in 2016.  Rubio recognized he made a mistake and says "My bad.  I heard you that time.  De Facto amnesty is preferable.  Good thing it didn't become law and won't happen again, Boss."  Rubio is saying he is willing to sublimate his opinion to the will of the people. I think that is how a representative its supposed to work.  I think Rubio would make a fantastic President, but then again I like public servants not ideologues.   A dictator pushes his agenda against the voters because he knows he is right, and he doesn't have time to convince the rest of the people.
"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
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Offline MBB1984

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Re: Marco Rubio aims for comeback with conservatives
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2014, 08:44:55 AM »
You want to "save" American culture from being swamped by illegal immigrants?  Assuming arguendo that American culture is indeed at risk of being destroyed by illegal immigrants, what better way to turn things around by bringing them into American culture rather than the other way around?  Immerse them in American culture and let it soak into them.  How?  Legalization.  Right now the libs/progs keep them on the plantation and isolated from the rest of America because of the hyped-up threat of "the Immi" - immigration.  Further, by keeping them in the ghettoes - communities that are populated mostly with illegal immigrants, where spanish is the only, or the predominant, language spoken, current immigration law only abets libs/progs in keeping illegals on the plantation where they can be used as tools to do their masters' bidding.

Since the key to the plantation is the threat of The Immi, take that threat away and you unlock the plantation, you let them leave the ghettoes without fear of reprisal.  Once they can safely move out of the lib/prog plantations/ghettoes, they are no longer a concentrated group of like-minded people totally cut off from the broader culture, they are now participants in that culture, have been diluted by moving into non-illegal neighborhoods and finding jobs that aren't mostly done by illegals (e.g., lawn mowing), and those who want to get ahead will realize that the better way to get ahead is to blend yourself into the larger American culture.  That doesn't mean you deracinate yourself, but it does mean that you no longer see the broader culture as an adversary to be avoided, but as a tool to be used to help you live a better life.

Immigration reform that legalizes current illegal immigrants will protect American culture far better than some sort of East German style sealed border.


Do you seriously believe we can assimilate approximately 20-25 million illegal immigrants?  It is impossible, particularly when most do not want to assimilate and view the United States as occupying "their" land.  Most desire the economic benefits of our culture (through work or welfare), but have no real understanding that our culture is superior to theirs.  To the contrary, they believe their culture to be superior.  American culture and its historic values of hard work, honesty, western civilization and the English language are already eroded by the lack of border enforcement and massive invasion of illegals.  Legalization will destroy the culture in exponential fashion and simultaneously encourage more illegals to pillage the once great culture that ironically led them to America.   


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