Author Topic: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?  (Read 441 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 10:07:54 AM by rangerrebew »
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 10:41:25 AM »
This is one of the reasons I don't go to church anymore.  Churches in America don't stand for anything, won't fight for anything - they're more social clubs than anything else and don't want to rock the boat (offend anyone).  Like our other institutions, most churches have been taken over by liberals.

Before anyone starts on me, I'll acknowledge there are a few exceptions everywhere - but by and large....the churches have fallen away.
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Online Oceander

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 10:50:12 AM »
Perhaps Nietzsche was correct?

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 11:03:07 AM »
Perhaps Nietzsche was correct?

In what way?
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 11:03:28 AM »

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 11:04:42 AM »
In what way?

Because we're a civilization, and a religion in decline.

Exactly.  And the essential point of Nietzsche's adage that "God is dead."

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 11:31:36 AM »
Exactly.  And the essential point of Nietzsche's adage that "God is dead."

Well I'm sad to say that I agree with that.  Just as God was dead for many years in the Soviet Union - it is becoming the same here in the USA.  America was once a mighty God-fearing country, it is no longer.  The fruit is rotting on the tree.   
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Offline rangerrebew

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 11:47:31 AM »
Well I'm sad to say that I agree with that.  Just as God was dead for many years in the Soviet Union - it is becoming the same here in the USA.  America was once a mighty God-fearing country, it is no longer.  The fruit is rotting on the tree.   

George Washington:  Farewell Address 1796



Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. :patriot:
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 12:12:35 PM »
George Washington:  Farewell Address 1796



Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. :patriot:

Thanks.  We could sure use a George Washington right now.   :0001:

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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 03:34:50 PM »
Thanks.  We could sure use a George Washington right now.   :0001:

Could we ever....

Offline rangerrebew

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2014, 05:10:02 PM »
Could we ever....

Especially with a government full of Benedict Arnolds.
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2014, 07:17:15 PM »
Quote
And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

While Washington was correct, he presided over a nation founded on the principle of religious freedom absent government coercion via the establishment of a national religion, along with minimal restrictions on the exercise of what one freely deemed to be one's a religion.  That meant that in that nation he founded, one could choose to live outside any religion, with no religious beliefs or any base of beliefs that one considered a religion, and unrestrained by the religious morality of others, so long as that individual engaged in no acts outside established laws.

Societies naturally evolve toward the less restrictive, which was certainly the case in the American Revolution. So when religion becomes a matter of free choice, then no religion becomes a choice, and societies become more permissive, outside of the sphere of religion.

Lots of people make the slippery slope argument against the changes that our society is undergoing right now, but that slippery slope began with the idea of individualism and freedom. So, here we are... the product of that nation founded by Washington and The Founding Fathers.

I very much think that SoCons swim upstream, and generally fight a losing battle. And I think that Democrats have found our Achilles Heel, and they run electoral campaigns on social issues. They paint Republicans as social troglodytes based on the social conservative's push against what I believe to be the natural flow of societies, and Republicans, forced to acknowledge what constitutes a strong and vocal portion of their constituency, end up trying to win elections based on social issues, which is our weak flank.

They lose those elections, and Democrats then run the gamut of their agenda on the society. 

Perhaps ALL Republicans need to run elections based on the Democrat's weak flank. Drop the social issues and talk about jobs, debt and taxes until they force the Democrats to defend the indefensible... their record these past five years.

Here's an interesting take on Ted Cruz and the TEA Party in general from Cal Thomas.

There are a lot of points that I agree with Cal on.

Cruz is quoted in the article:

Quote
"Many of the critics are saying the path to victory in November is for Republicans to put their heads down, don't rock the boat, don't take any stands. I think history has proven that that is a consistent path to failure"

I agree. I just don't think that those stands should be on gay marriage or any social issues.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 07:25:08 PM by Luis Gonzalez »

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2014, 01:44:55 AM »
Quote
While Washington was correct, he presided over a nation founded on the principle of religious freedom absent government coercion via the establishment of a national religion, along with minimal restrictions on the exercise of what one freely deemed to be one's a religion.  That meant that in that nation he founded, one could choose to live outside any religion, with no religious beliefs or any base of beliefs that one considered a religion, and unrestrained by the religious morality of others, so long as that individual engaged in no acts outside established laws.

Quote
I very much think that SoCons swim upstream, and generally fight a losing battle. And I think that Democrats have found our Achilles Heel, and they run electoral campaigns on social issues. They paint Republicans as social troglodytes based on the social conservative's push against what I believe to be the natural flow of societies, and Republicans, forced to acknowledge what constitutes a strong and vocal portion of their constituency, end up trying to win elections based on social issues, which is our weak flank.

They lose those elections, and Democrats then run the gamut of their agenda on the society.

Perhaps ALL Republicans need to run elections based on the Democrat's weak flank. Drop the social issues and talk about jobs, debt and taxes until they force the Democrats to defend the indefensible... their record these past five years.


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Offline EC

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Re: Why won't western churches condemn Muslim oppression of Christians?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2014, 02:38:11 AM »
Trying to think of a single empire where increasing permissiveness was not a contributing factor in their downfall. I can't think of a single one so far, except possibly the Mayan.

There is a reasonably well known saying over here:

"If you want something done, give an order (or make a law). If you want something to stick, make a tradition."

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