Author Topic: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States  (Read 2866 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 06:01:21 AM by rangerrebew »
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2014, 07:03:45 AM »
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline rangerrebew

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2014, 08:56:17 AM »
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.

So it would seem.  I think those who reside in cemeteries are the leaders of the "I don't care movement." :whistle:
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline Chieftain

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2014, 09:51:41 AM »
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.

I disagree.  Lots of Americans have problems with all of this, but who you gonna call??  The same guy who caused the problem in the first place??

Elections are fundamentally the way to fix all of this.

Offline olde north church

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 10:25:05 AM »
I disagree.  Lots of Americans have problems with all of this, but who you gonna call??  The same guy who caused the problem in the first place??

Elections are fundamentally the way to fix all of this.

If there was response commensurate with problem, there would be riots.  There are none.  There are countries on this planet that people riot over cooking oil or the price of rice.  Americans are fat and complacent which equals no problems.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2014, 11:03:26 AM »
I disagree.  Lots of Americans have problems with all of this, but who you gonna call??  The same guy who caused the problem in the first place??

Elections are fundamentally the way to fix all of this.

Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2014, 04:14:30 PM »
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 04:21:22 PM »
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.

This regime has been SO lawless on SO many fronts that I think the American people are overwhelmed.  I fear we (the American people) are becoming politically paralyzed because we don't know where to start to stop this monstrosity and turn it around... and few political leaders are leading in this area.   

I'm also afraid we are right where Obama wants us.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 04:32:23 PM »
Americans obviously have nary a problem with it.
Take a simple look at how the views of homosexuality, for example, have changed in the past decade alone and you will see how quickly this country is being blatantly brainwashed.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 05:13:59 PM »
Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine.
Agreed in full.

And for all the hand-wringing on the right, I feel we were closer to breakdown in America during the late 60s-early 70s.

The right has to sharpen its game. Attack Obama's policies and outcomes, not the person.

Keep it short, simple, factual and verifiable. Avoid ridiculous fringy claims, and fringy people.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 11:29:12 PM »
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine. ]]

It pains to say it, but I don't think elections are going to "get the fixin' done" any more.

Too much of what is wrong has become "institutionalized" into government agencies and bureaucracies that are under little influence from "elections".

And the very integrity of elections in this land is under attack, not only from the party of the left and the left itself, but is being undermined by newfangled procedures that fundamentally corrupt the elective process.

Nope.

What alternatives does that leave us?

Offline Oceander

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2014, 12:04:01 AM »
Agreed in full.

And for all the hand-wringing on the right, I feel we were closer to breakdown in America during the late 60s-early 70s.

The right has to sharpen its game. Attack Obama's policies and outcomes, not the person.

Keep it short, simple, factual and verifiable. Avoid ridiculous fringy claims, and fringy people.



I wasn't around for the 60s and wasn't much aware for the first half of the 70s, but from what I've read and gathered over the years, I would tend to agree.  I think the atmosphere, the zeitgeist, was much more apocalyptic back then.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 12:14:50 AM »
Oceander wrote above:
[[ Elections are the only way to fix this, politically; the only other alternative is currently on display in Ukraine. ]]

It pains to say it, but I don't think elections are going to "get the fixin' done" any more.

Too much of what is wrong has become "institutionalized" into government agencies and bureaucracies that are under little influence from "elections".

And the very integrity of elections in this land is under attack, not only from the party of the left and the left itself, but is being undermined by newfangled procedures that fundamentally corrupt the elective process.

Nope.

What alternatives does that leave us?

One can always vote with one's feet.  There are other countries out there that aren't quite like the US.  E.g., with Australia, notwithstanding the generally prog/lib tendencies in much of the country, there is so much blasted country, and so few people, that one can get a more real independence just by moving inland from the coast a hundred miles or so; don't even have to be in the badlands.

Were I footloose and fancy free, and could rack up enough immigration points, I'd move there in a heartbeat right now; I've got a few friends there who'd help me land on my two feet and get set up, and I'd be right as rain.  Might even see if I could hook up with Greg Craven again and get some sort of con-law comparative studies program going (yes, I'm name-dropping, but dropping his name here isn't likely to get any points, so I can do it shamelessly and openly).  Places-wise, I'm not completely settled on any one place.  I'd avoid Canberra just on general principles.  The weather in VIC and NSW is likely to appeal to me most, although parts of southern WA are nice too.  Brisbane is about as far north as I'd care to go weatherwise (once had a really beautiful gf in Ipswich).  The cities (Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth) have their perks, but I'd just as soon stay far away from 'em and just go in for a visit now and then.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 09:17:47 AM »
I wasn't around for the 60s and wasn't much aware for the first half of the 70s, but from what I've read and gathered over the years, I would tend to agree.  I think the atmosphere, the zeitgeist, was much more apocalyptic back then.

That was because the clash of cultures was much more pronounced back then-- kind of like the Andy Griffith Show vs. Woodstock.   Moreover, it was easier for this country to come back from the precipice because there were a LOT more people around with common sense who had sacrificed and/or gone to war to preserve and protect our freedom (WWII had only been over 20 years and those veterans were running the country at the time). 

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 09:44:01 AM »

Offline Bigun

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 09:48:05 AM »
One can always vote with one's feet.  There are other countries out there that aren't quite like the US.  E.g., with Australia, notwithstanding the generally prog/lib tendencies in much of the country, there is so much blasted country, and so few people, that one can get a more real independence just by moving inland from the coast a hundred miles or so; don't even have to be in the badlands.

Were I footloose and fancy free, and could rack up enough immigration points, I'd move there in a heartbeat right now; I've got a few friends there who'd help me land on my two feet and get set up, and I'd be right as rain.  Might even see if I could hook up with Greg Craven again and get some sort of con-law comparative studies program going (yes, I'm name-dropping, but dropping his name here isn't likely to get any points, so I can do it shamelessly and openly).  Places-wise, I'm not completely settled on any one place.  I'd avoid Canberra just on general principles.  The weather in VIC and NSW is likely to appeal to me most, although parts of southern WA are nice too.  Brisbane is about as far north as I'd care to go weatherwise (once had a really beautiful gf in Ipswich).  The cities (Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth) have their perks, but I'd just as soon stay far away from 'em and just go in for a visit now and then.

Yes they can but if the USA falls to communism no other place will be safe for long!
 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 09:48:42 AM by Bigun »

Offline olde north church

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 10:03:57 AM »
Yes they can but if the USA falls to communism no other place will be safe for long!

Perhaps at one time but that was part of the lie too.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 10:06:07 AM »
Perhaps at one time but that was part of the lie too.

Are you willing to risk testing the theory? I'm not!

Offline olde north church

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 10:16:06 AM »
Are you willing to risk testing the theory? I'm not!

As much of an over-rated film "Metropolis" was, it exposed a truth.  Well two truths.  The first, there is a preterclass of humans who live far above the rest of us.  I mean beyond Trump, Kerry and probably even the Kennedys.  Beyond the Bilderberg attendees.  On the order of the Rothschilds and probably not many other.
The second, that there is freedom.  In truth, there is none.  Freedom is an illusion.  Ronald Reagan was an anomaly.  Not another like him has existed since before the "Civil War".
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 10:31:07 AM »
As much of an over-rated film "Metropolis" was, it exposed a truth.  Well two truths.  The first, there is a preterclass of humans who live far above the rest of us.  I mean beyond Trump, Kerry and probably even the Kennedys.  Beyond the Bilderberg attendees.  On the order of the Rothschilds and probably not many other.
The second, that there is freedom.  In truth, there is none.  Freedom is an illusion.  Ronald Reagan was an anomaly.  Not another like him has existed since before the "Civil War".

I will not argue with any of that. In fact, I will tell you that before the ink was dry on the Constitution there were tho9se who sought to undermine and destroy it. Those people and their descendants have gotten far down the road to accomplishing their goals but haven't completely gotten it done yet and fpr as long as there is breath in my body I will do whatever I can to ensure that they never do!

Offline olde north church

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2014, 10:52:04 AM »
I will not argue with any of that. In fact, I will tell you that before the ink was dry on the Constitution there were tho9se who sought to undermine and destroy it. Those people and their descendants have gotten far down the road to accomplishing their goals but haven't completely gotten it done yet and fpr as long as there is breath in my body I will do whatever I can to ensure that they never do!

There was something I read the other day that really piqued my interest.  Regarding the grandson and nephews of Queen Victoria.  The Kaiser, the Tsar and King George V, all heads of state in the Great War.  The Tsar and the King, friends.  The Kaiser, not.  A family feud played across the world.  The outcome would set the stage for the Russian Revolution, fascism and WWII.  That is too much power in too few hands.
I hadn't thought of it in familial terms until that.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 10:53:29 AM by olde north church »
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2014, 11:07:27 AM »
Yes they can but if the USA falls to communism no other place will be safe for long!
 

Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba.  The North Koreans aren't communists, they're Pol-Pot style dictators and tyrants.  The Chinese are communist in name only, having evolved into more or less a hard left corporativist socialism.  And should that fall take place it will, in fact, make other places more safe, not less safe, because part and parcel of that fall will be a reduction in the ability of the US to coerce other nations, economically or militarily, to toe the political line favored by the US (which would at that point be Euro-socialism).

Offline Bigun

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2014, 11:12:16 AM »
Bah.  It won't fall to communism, it'll fall - to adopt your term - to European, specifically French, style socialism.  Communism as such no longer exists as a dominant force anywhere, other than, perhaps, Cuba.  The North Koreans aren't communists, they're Pol-Pot style dictators and tyrants.  The Chinese are communist in name only, having evolved into more or less a hard left corporativist socialism.  And should that fall take place it will, in fact, make other places more safe, not less safe, because part and parcel of that fall will be a reduction in the ability of the US to coerce other nations, economically or militarily, to toe the political line favored by the US (which would at that point be Euro-socialism).

Two words!

Bull Sh*t!

Offline Oceander

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2014, 11:17:08 AM »
As much of an over-rated film "Metropolis" was, it exposed a truth.  Well two truths.  The first, there is a preterclass of humans who live far above the rest of us.  I mean beyond Trump, Kerry and probably even the Kennedys.  Beyond the Bilderberg attendees.  On the order of the Rothschilds and probably not many other.
The second, that there is freedom.  In truth, there is none.  Freedom is an illusion.  Ronald Reagan was an anomaly.  Not another like him has existed since before the "Civil War".

Just because your freedom of action is not totally unrestrained does not render "freedom" illusory.  In an earlier age you, I, and everyone else here would have played serf to those few whom you say live so far above us; serfs had precious little freedom compared to the freedom you enjoy.  In days of yore, serfs were regarded as, and legally were, possessions that went with the land they toiled on, as much a part of that land as the cabinetry is of today's houses.  Today, we ordinary mortals possess land; the land does not possess us.

In fact, you probably enjoy greater freedom than did many minor nobles in the middle ages; consider the amount of power available to you for a few thousand dollars:  you can purchase the means to travel several thousand miles in a few days, from the east coast to the west; you can even purchase the means to fly halfway 'round the world in less than 24 hours - making a mockery of that gent who traveled 'round the world in 80 days.  And consider the quantity and quality of food available to you for a relative pittance; not even the nobility of old ate so well as you.  And consider the state of your health; notwithstanding the current attempt to control your health care, your health, and that of most of us, far surpasses that of even most nobles of old.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Elections can't fix the "fundamental transformation" of the United States
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2014, 11:17:48 AM »
Two words!

Bull Sh*t!

straight back atcha.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, of which you have produced none.


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