Author Topic: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)  (Read 1813 times)

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Offline Gazoo

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Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« on: February 19, 2014, 10:26:40 AM »
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While Rand Paul, who is currently leading in polls of GOP voters, backs fellow Kentuckian Mitch McConnell against a tea party opponent, Ted Cruz openly defies establishment Republican leaders.

WASHINGTON
Sens. Rand Paul of Kentucky and Ted Cruz of Texas are both favorites of the tea party wing of the Republican Party. If both run for president in 2016, as seems likely at the moment, they’d vie for the same conservative voters as a base upon which to build a winning GOP primary coalition.

Given that potential White House candidates are jockeying right now for support from key donors and party figures, it’s not too early to ask this question: Which of these two men is currently winning the most tea party support?

Despite their similar electoral roots, they are very different politicians, of course. And they’re taking two different roads to building name recognition and support in advance of the official White House race.

The libertarian-oriented Senator Paul is emphasizing his vision of a changed, more inclusive Republican Party. And he’s doing so in a pretty blunt way. In an interview with Glenn Beck that aired last week, Paul said the GOP will not win the White House again in his lifetime absent radical change.

“And it has to be a transformation. Not a little tweaking at the edges,” Paul told Mr. Beck in a segment aired on TheBlazeTV.

That means some kind of immigration reform, though Paul hasn’t outlined specifics on this issue beyond opposition to the indefinite jailing of detainees.

“If you want to work and you want a job and you want to be part of America, we’ll find a place for you,” Paul said in an interview with Politico published Tuesday.

Deemphasizing the war on drugs could win support in minority communities, which have a disproportionate share of their population jailed on drug charges, according to Paul. When the Kentucky senator speaks before audiences of young voters, he talks about civil liberties, not taxes.

Senator Cruz is taking a more confrontational approach. Where Paul has endorsed majority leader Mitch McConnell against a tea party primary opponent, angering some conservatives, Cruz won’t support Texas colleague Sen. John Cornyn (R), who also faces a tea party primary challenge.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Buzz/2014/0218/Rand-Paul-vs.-Ted-Cruz-Who-s-winning-tea-party-voters-video?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=DC%20Decoder&utm_campaign=DC%20Decoder%20Blast%20to%20All%20Newsletters


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUjwHAwqy4




As we all discussed yesterday. Some on this forum don't like Cruz at all.

Some are liberal leaning, possibly democrats, some are GOP E. Some are Rand Paul only supporters?

Do the People that dislike Cruz do so in favor of full Rand Paul support or strict GOP loyalty?

I ask this not to criticize or hinder but to get to the core of the discussion.

Some left leaning folks I am guessing are delighting in this schism. But it is the primaries early don't take too much delight.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:35:45 AM by Gazoo »
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 10:29:17 AM »
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Cruz clashed openly with establishment GOP leaders last week when he forced them to break his filibuster to allow a final vote on a bill to raise the national debt ceiling. Senator McConnell had hoped the legislation would pass without Republican fingerprints, avoiding a messy fight that might spook financial markets.

Afterwards, the Lone Star lawmaker was unrepentant. Lots of GOP senators misrepresented their intentions to constituents, he said, vowing they’d fight the debt ceiling when they had no intention of doing any such thing.

“It’s like they think the American people are just a bunch of rubes, that we don’t remember what they say,” Cruz told conservative radio talk host Mark Levin late last week.

Such defiance thrills insurgent-minded conservatives. Slate’s Dave Weigel notes today that Cruz is so popular in Texas that a number of Republican candidates now prominently feature photos of themselves with Cruz on their web sites – even though Cruz hasn’t actually endorsed them.

As for Paul, his endorsement of establishment leader McConnell shows he’s bailed on bringing big change to Washington, charges Leon Wolf in the conservative RedState website.

“When it comes to actual accomplishments that have changed the way things are done in Washington or even within the Senate GOP caucus, Paul’s cabinet is pretty empty,” writes Mr. Wolf.

But here’s the kicker: Right now Paul leads Cruz in polls of GOP voters. The RealClearPolitics rolling average of major surveys has Paul as the presidential nominee choice of 11.2 percent of Republicans, as opposed to 8.2 percent for Cruz.

Paul appears to have an edge among conservative and tea party voters as well, though the data here is a bit thin. In a January McClatchy/Marist survey, 10 percent of self-described tea party supporters picked Paul as their presidential choice. Nine percent picked Cruz. Paul won eight percent of “strong Republicans” in the McClatchy data; Cruz won six percent, which is within the poll margin of error. 
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 10:46:04 AM »
As we all discussed yesterday. Some on this forum don't like Cruz at all.

Some are liberal leaning, possibly democrats, some are GOP E. Some are Rand Paul only supporters?

Do the People that dislike Cruz do so in favor of full Rand Paul support or strict GOP loyalty?

C'mon Gazoo... that is somewhat "inciteful" as opposed to insightful.  It prejudges the viewpoints of some otherwise respected members of the forum.  I am certainly not the police around here but it is clear (even if not intended) with a rational reading.  I don't want to lose sight of the fact that we all share the same purpose.  It is the Left/Progressive Democrat that I want to defeat.

------

To your question - again, I like Senator Cruz.  In my view, however, he needs to stay in the Senate for seasoning.  It seems to me that Senator Cruz is "smarter" than Senator Paul (no slouch, either) but he has lesser instincts than Senator Paul.  From what I have seen - and the jury hasn't even been seated - I choose Senator Paul over Senator Cruz in their present iterations.  A very qualified answer, I know.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:58:37 AM by Lando Lincoln »
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2014, 10:51:06 AM »
I am sorry you took it that way.

I edited to add the following long before I just read your post...

I ask this not to criticize or hinder but to get to the core of the discussion.

Some left leaning folks I am guessing are delighting in this schism. But it is the primaries early don't take too much delight.
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2014, 10:53:34 AM »
I am sorry you took it that way.

I edited to add the following long before I just read your post...

I ask this not to criticize or hinder but to get to the core of the discussion.

Some left leaning folks I am guessing are delighting in this schism. But it is the primaries early don't take too much delight.

No worries Gazoo.  I know your posting history.  You were not trying to get under anyone's skin.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2014, 10:58:39 AM »
C'mon Gazoo... that is somewhat "inciteful" as opposed to insightful.  It prejudges the viewpoints of some otherwise respected members of the forum.  I am certainly not the police around here but it is clear (even if not intended) with a rational reading.  I don't want to lose sight of the fact that we all share the same purpose.  It is the Left/Progressive Democrat that I want to defeat.

------

To your question - again, I like Senator Cruz.  In my view, however, he needs to stay in the Senate for seasoning.  It seems to me that Senator Cruz is "smarter" than Senator Paul (no slouch, either) but he has lesser instincts than Senator Paul.  From what I have seen - and the jury hasn't even been seated - I choose Senator Paul over Senator Cruz (in their present iterations).  A very qualified answer, I know.

Thanks for your reply. I was blunt only to get to the heart of the issue.

I won't take back my viewpoint that some that may post here are left leaning and delight in the schism. But to heck with that, let's discuss this so we are not all here after elections moaning because the democrats won due to our divide.

I like Rand Paul too. It is a cluster. But his backing McConnell over the tea party guy (that is BTW winning or tied,) of possibly no fault of his own, turns this into a three ring circus. Thanks for your reply about us all having the same goal. I think we do.

"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 11:40:03 AM »
As we all discussed yesterday. Some on this forum don't like Cruz at all.

Some are liberal leaning, possibly democrats, some are GOP E. Some are Rand Paul only supporters?

Do the People that dislike Cruz do so in favor of full Rand Paul support or strict GOP loyalty?

I ask this not to criticize or hinder but to get to the core of the discussion.

Some left leaning folks I am guessing are delighting in this schism. But it is the primaries early don't take too much delight.

I could easily support Rand Paul.  I don't agree with everything he advocates, but his style is so much more rational and reasonable.

Cruz is abrasive, confrontational, and arrogant.  And that's before one pays attention to anything he says.
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Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 12:00:16 PM »
I could easily support Rand Paul.  I don't agree with everything he advocates, but his style is so much more rational and reasonable.

Cruz is abrasive, confrontational, and arrogant.  And that's before one pays attention to anything he says.

We have to agree to disagree on this. He is no more arrogant than the next guy. What you call confrontational I see as someone speaking up and not cowering. Like him or not- Sink, More Americans are tired of Washington and the same ole same ole. big government. Tired of them voting in their pay raises then voting on the atrocious debt ceiling and being so politically correct they cower to the media. They have become, democrats. The republican leadership could retire right now and live like kings JUST on their slush fund accounts. How about REAL term limits?

The only way I can understand what Rand may be doing is that he is trying the Reagan approach. Reagan got democratic votes. Reagan was bipartisan. But the times were different. I wonder what Reagan would say about the IRS and tea party being shoveled aside as wacko birds? I think Reagan would welcome the tea party and not demonize a man as blunt as Cruz. Rand is playing into the tactics of the democrats by addressing the war on women bluntly making them look to themselves with this false narrative that republicans despise women. But bowing to McConnell is harsh.

Why can't the republican leaders retire and embrace the new younger blood and not demonize them? They forced the hand of a tea party opponent that may beat them. Why did it come to this?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 12:01:27 PM by Gazoo »
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 12:17:16 PM »
It will be interesting to see where these two contemporaries are a decade hence.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 12:32:15 PM »
I like them both, but I think we will have a dark horse in the race and I predict it could well be the governor of Wisconsin.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 12:37:45 PM »
I like them both, but I think we will have a dark horse in the race and I predict it could well be the governor of Wisconsin.


Your guess may be right Rap. But guess what, the dems are on it like white on rice. 25 minutes ago breaking news.

Quote
Scott Walker, eyeing 2016, faces fallout from investigations as ex-aide’s e-mails are released - The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/scott-walker-eyeing-2016-faces-fallout-from-investigations-as-ex-aides-e-mails-are-released/2014/02/18/8b26bfa4-98b2-11e3-b931-0204122c514b_story.html


I like him as well. I have not read the entire article but The Clinton Dem machine is at work. The dems were already screaming he has no college education :rollseyes:
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 12:39:28 PM »
I like them both, but I think we will have a dark horse in the race and I predict it could well be the governor of Wisconsin.

YESSSS!!!!

I have to agree with folks about Cruz and Paul.  I like them both, but hope they both gain more on their resumes than filibustering, before considering a run for high office. 

Has it been determined that Ted Cruz is even constitutionally eligible to run for president? 

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 12:42:51 PM »
YESSSS!!!!

I have to agree with folks about Cruz and Paul.  I like them both, but hope they both gain more on their resumes than filibustering, before considering a run for high office. 

Has it been determined that Ted Cruz is even constitutionally eligible to run for president?

Yes, it has been determined ad nauseam to the point that the MSM even quit harping. Ted Cruz renounced his Canadian citizenship. Did Obama renounce his?
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 12:45:42 PM »
Whoever runs in 2016 had better get some better consultants than the candidates used in 2012.  The current GOP consultancy class are pathetically in the 1960's the person who will even stand a chance of winning needs someone who is in this century - and investigators like O'Keefe on he payroll.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2014, 01:09:14 PM »
Whoever runs in 2016 had better get some better consultants than the candidates used in 2012.  The current GOP consultancy class are pathetically in the 1960's the person who will even stand a chance of winning needs someone who is in this century - and investigators like O'Keefe on he payroll.

Hillary I am guessing, has full use of the Obama machine of a room full of nothing but PI's researching. NO WAIT, my bad they now have the NSA/FBI/DOJ at their disposal. Saint Mother Teresa could reign down from heaven and they would find dirt on her.
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 01:10:55 PM »
I just noticed at the top a few minutes ago 15 guests viewing this topic. Are they mostly bots?

If not, sign in people and post!!!
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 01:12:33 PM »
Hillary I am guessing, has full use of the Obama machine of a room full of nothing but PI's researching. NO WAIT, my bad they now have the NSA/FBI/DOJ at their disposal. Saint Mother Teresa could reign down from heaven and they would find dirt on her.

She also has her own personal Spanish language channel 100% in her pocket......... which means even the Spanish soap opera's will be pushing her like they pushed food stamps........
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline EC

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2014, 01:18:49 PM »
I don't want Cruz to run in '16. Full stop.

Not because he wouldn't make a decent President. He would. But where he is at the moment is far more valuable in terms of shifting the country back to the right. You don't get pearls without irritating an oyster, and he is particularly adept at irritating.

Paul - well. No. I know - he's a right leaning Libertarian, pretty much has all the same positions as I do, but he's not quite ready for prime time. Maybe when his old man is retired and out of the way.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2014, 01:21:57 PM »
We have to agree to disagree on this. He is no more arrogant than the next guy. What you call confrontational I see as someone speaking up and not cowering. Like him or not- Sink, More Americans are tired of Washington and the same ole same ole. big government. Tired of them voting in their pay raises then voting on the atrocious debt ceiling and being so politically correct they cower to the media. They have become, democrats. The republican leadership could retire right now and live like kings JUST on their slush fund accounts. How about REAL term limits?

The only way I can understand what Rand may be doing is that he is trying the Reagan approach. Reagan got democratic votes. Reagan was bipartisan. But the times were different. I wonder what Reagan would say about the IRS and tea party being shoveled aside as wacko birds? I think Reagan would welcome the tea party and not demonize a man as blunt as Cruz. Rand is playing into the tactics of the democrats by addressing the war on women bluntly making them look to themselves with this false narrative that republicans despise women. But bowing to McConnell is harsh.

Why can't the republican leaders retire and embrace the new younger blood and not demonize them? They forced the hand of a tea party opponent that may beat them. Why did it come to this?

It came to this because Tea Partiers think they can beat down the Democrats and Obama from sheer force of will.  And, they also believe they can scare other conserviatives with threats of replacing them in office.

More often than not, they can't do that and will do less and less of it as time goes on.  The "Republican leaders" are no longer cowed by the Tea Party, and their success in upcoming primaries will pretty well put the lie to the power of the Tea Party.

We saw the power of the "new younger blood" exhibited in the government shutdown in October.  How'd that work out?

The new younger blood needs to figure out a strategy that includes EVERYBODY in the Republican party.  If they don't do that, they'll become less and less relevant.
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Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2014, 01:35:06 PM »
She also has her own personal Spanish language channel 100% in her pocket......... which means even the Spanish soap opera's will be pushing her like they pushed food stamps........

Remember when she declared her love for Al Jazeera TV?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2014, 01:35:54 PM »
Remember when she declared her love for Al Jazeera TV?

Yep, wanna bet they will go all in for her, too.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline raml

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2014, 03:01:40 PM »
I like them both and could vote for either. I like the governor of Wisconsin even better though. He is a proven leader.

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2014, 03:04:04 PM »
She also has her own personal Spanish language channel 100% in her pocket......... which means even the Spanish soap opera's will be pushing her like they pushed food stamps........

If that is not proof she bought Obama's get out the vote machine I don't know what is! Wasn't it said Obama's team hacked Romney's program so he could not do I-pad outreach?
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2014, 03:05:09 PM »
I like them both and could vote for either. I like the governor of Wisconsin even better though. He is a proven leader.

Agreed. But the liberals think someone with no college can't be President. Only Ivey league smart lol people like Barack.
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline raml

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Re: Rand Paul vs. Ted Cruz: Who's winning tea party voters? (+video)
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 03:11:12 PM »
Liberals won't be the ones voting for any republican candidate. Anyone who thinks a college degree gives a person leadership abilities or makes them intelligent is once again a very very low information voter and the republicans once again aren't going to ever get their vote.


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