Lamar Alexander crushing Tea Party foe, leads 7-1 among key conservatives

[Chieftain]

People have predicting TBR's demise for almost 5 years now....

yah...but only at the OTHER site.........

 

[sinkspur]

I am just curious about something... What is it that makes you so hate the Tea Party? I don't understand at all

Observe the behavior of some of the TPers on this forum.  Belligerent, dismissive toward those who don't toe their line, and intent on taking out solid conservatives like John Cornyn  who have fought the fight for YEARS.

I suppose Ted Cruz is now the poster boy for how the Tea Party is to march:  uncompromising, completely unwilling to work within the GOP, and ready to throw his compatriots under the bus if it will advance his cause.

If that's what the TP is about, I want no part of it.

[R4 TrumPence]

Observe the behavior of some of the TPers on this forum.  Belligerent, dismissive toward those who don't toe their line, and intent on taking out solid conservatives like John Cornyn  who have fought the fight for YEARS.

I suppose Ted Cruz is now the poster boy for how the Tea Party is to march:  uncompromising, completely unwilling to work within the GOP, and ready to throw his compatriots under the bus if it will advance his cause.

If that's what the TP is about, I want no part of it.

I think there are a lot of people that do not understand the Tea Party. So many groups have tried to co-opt it.

When the original Tea Party came into being, it was Repubs, Dems and Indys that were fed up with govt taxes and spending.

Because there was no central "Headquarters" to help it along, Different factions sprung up, proclaiming social and fiscal ties.

The media and the left also got into the act of defining the TP. Which is why it also hurt that there was no clear message.

Due to the media a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouths for the TP.  Had it been left to just the fiscal side of conservatism, it would not have the "right wing nuts" moniker attached, and more indys and dems would have probably been more vocal.

I don't push my social views on anyone, but I am socially and fiscally conservative.   

[Luis Gonzalez]

People who idolize politicians seem gullible to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS9mbl4twdU

[sinkspur]

I think there are a lot of people that do not understand the Tea Party. So many groups have tried to co-opt it.

When the original Tea Party came into being, it was Repubs, Dems and Indys that were fed up with govt taxes and spending.

Because there was no central "Headquarters" to help it along, Different factions sprung up, proclaiming social and fiscal ties.

The media and the left also got into the act of defining the TP. Which is why it also hurt that there was no clear message.

Due to the media a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouths for the TP.  Had it been left to just the fiscal side of conservatism, it would not have the "right wing nuts" moniker attached, and more indys and dems would have probably been more vocal.

I don't push my social views on anyone, but I am socially and fiscally conservative.   

It's not about "views" or policies.  I agree with most of the TP stances.

It's the attitude of the TPers themselves, exemplified and embodied in someone like Ted Cruz, that turns me off.  His ill-fated and stupid attempt to defund Obamacare in October, leading to the shutdown of the government, was one of the dumbest things I've ever observed from a politician.

Then, last week, he tried the same stunt again, and made sure he embarrassed as many fellow Republicans as he could.

That's not statesman-like behavior.  That's bush-league prepubescent belligerence.  Even his former cohort, Mike Lee, has decided to forgo juvenile antics.

And then, to see Cruz's risible foolishness applauded........let's just say it's not the TP policies that bother me, but the tactics.

[Luis Gonzalez]

It's not about "views" or policies.  I agree with most of the TP stances.

It's the attitude of the TPers themselves, exemplified and embodied in someone like Ted Cruz, that turns me off.  His ill-fated and stupid attempt to defund Obamacare in October, leading to the shutdown of the government, was one of the dumbest things I've ever observed from a politician.

Then, last week, he tried the same stunt again, and made sure he embarrassed as many fellow Republicans as he could.

That's not statesman-like behavior.  That's bush-league prepubescent belligerence.  Even his former cohort, Mike Lee, has decided to forgo juvenile antics.

And then, to see Cruz's risible foolishness applauded........let's just say it's not the TP policies that bother me, but the tactics.

Paul Simon wrote a song called "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor".

You see Cruz one way, and others see him differently.

You think that the shutdown move was stupid, I LIKED IT.

You object to the fact that Cruz embarrassed a number of fellow Republicans last week, many (me included) object to the fact that the GOP is an embarrassment so much of the time. 

There comes a point in time when debate and procedural adherence simply stops working and there's nothing left to do but to take to the mat, and the old guard of the GOP ain't up to taking anyone to the mat. The Democrats however, are taking us to the mat and beating us silly.

Fiscal responsibility is one of the cornerstones of conservatism. I've not seen signs of fiscally responsible behavior from the GOPe in many, many years.

So, what's the worst that actually happened when Cruz "embarrassed" s number of the GOP congressional delegation?

They had to stand up and "own" their fiscally irresponsible position?

If owning their position is embarrassing, where do they get the balls to blame someone else for the embarrassment?

There's been some hard feelings here
About some words that were said
There's been some hard feelings here
And what is more
There's been a bloody purple nose
And some bloody purple clothes
That were messing up the lobby floor
It's just apartment house rules
So all you 'partment fools
Remember : one man's ceiling
is another man's floor
Remember: one man's ceiling
is another man's floor.

[sinkspur]

Paul Simon wrote a song called "One Man's Ceiling is Another Man's Floor".

You see Cruz one way, and others see him differently.

You think that the shutdown move was stupid, I LIKED IT.

You object to the fact that Cruz embarrassed a number of fellow Republicans last week, many (me included) object to the fact that the GOP is an embarrassment so much of the time. 

There comes a point in time when debate and procedural adherence simply stops working and there's nothing left to do but to take to the mat, and the old guard of the GOP ain't up to taking anyone to the mat. The Democrats however, are taking us to the mat and beating us silly.

Fiscal responsibility is one of the cornerstones of conservatism. I've not seen signs of fiscally responsible behavior from the GOPe in many, many years.

So, what's the worst that actually happened when Cruz "embarrassed" s number of the GOP congressional delegation?

They had to stand up and "own" their fiscally irresponsible position?

If owning their position is embarrassing, where do they get the balls to blame someone else for the embarrassment?

There's been some hard feelings here
About some words that were said
There's been some hard feelings here
And what is more
There's been a bloody purple nose
And some bloody purple clothes
That were messing up the lobby floor
It's just apartment house rules
So all you 'partment fools
Remember : one man's ceiling
is another man's floor
Remember: one man's ceiling
is another man's floor.

After the dust has settled, it's likely the temporary embarrassment will yield to an acknowledgement by the majority of Republican voters that Cornyn, McConnell, et al did the right thing.

I'm all for taking it to the mat if there's any chance of victory.  In the case of the shutdown and the debt ceiling, the outcomes were never in doubt.

The problem for Cruz is he has ruined any working relationship he may have had with 44 other GOP Senators.  That doesn't bother me, as I think he needs to be taught a lesson.  But, given the rules of the Senate, he's going to continue to make an ass of himself and try to take down as many other Republicans as he can.

Ted, if you haven't figured it out, is all about Ted.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Ted, if you haven't figured it out, is all about Ted.

Am I supposed to believe that there are noble souls in DC who are NOT driven by self-interest and not motivated by the power that the position in government affords them?

The call Washington the Seat of Power for a reason.

[truth_seeker]

I am just curious about something... What is it that makes you so hate the Tea Party? I don't understand at all

Hate is the wrong word. More like disappointed they devolved from taking seats from democrats in 2010, to trying to replace incumbent Republicans.

For instance Pete Sessions, Cornyn and McConnell all rated above rated 90.

Seats were lost by weak TP people that managed to win primaries, but couldn't win the generals.

One wonders if they seriously care about results.   

[Formerly Once-Ler]

This is going to be a watershed year.  When the vast majority of incumbents defeat TP primary opponents--as I think they will--the supposed power of FreedomWorks and Senate Conservatives Fund will be broken.

It already is
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,128464.msg521499.html#msg521499

FREEDOMWORKS FOR AMERICA
Raised $847,243 and spent $1,083,260 in 2013.  They have $595,214 cash on hand   

SENATE CONSERVATIVES FUND
Raised $7,733,854 and spent $8,083,425.  They have cash on hand.  $859,424

BuzzFeed says FreedomWorks had to borrow a million to have the cash on hand
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/sources-cash-strapped-freedomworks-in-state-of-financial-dis

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,128375.msg521031.html#msg521031
American Crossroads has 2.7 million cash on hand.
The RNC pulled in 7.4 million in Dec alone.  They raised $80.6 million in 2013 and have $9.2 million on hand
That's just the RNC, add the NRSC, then look at the war chests of the GOPe like McConnell, Cornyn and Graham and look at war chests of the Tea Party challengers and you can see the real level of support the tea party has.  A fart in the breeze. Terry McAuilffe spent $33 million to win one statewide election.   There are 35 Senate races this year.

I like where the GOPe is sittin.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Disgusting if true.  Alexander is one of the worst GOP senators and should be easily replaced by a true Conservative.  I could hold my nose and vote for Cornyn and McConnell.  As far as Alexander goes, If I lived in TN, I would probably vote democrat to replace that sorry piece of RINO.

Real conservatives vote rat.

Recent Senators from TN have been Al Gore, McCain buddy Fred Thompson, and Bill Frist.

The other Senator from TN is Bob Corker.  http://therightscoop.com/sen-bob-corker-says-defunding-obamacare-effort-is-silly-and-it-lacks-courage-hes-an-idiot/

TN Governor is Bill Haslam http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/mar/23/tennessee-tea-party-calls-gov-bill-haslam-socialis/

Why in the world do conservatives think they can do better than Alexander?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

You see Cruz one way, and others see him differently.

You think that the shutdown move was stupid, I LIKED IT.

You object to the fact that Cruz embarrassed a number of fellow Republicans last week, many (me included) object to the fact that the GOP is an embarrassment so much of the time. 

There comes a point in time when debate and procedural adherence simply stops working and there's nothing left to do but to take to the mat, and the old guard of the GOP ain't up to taking anyone to the mat. The Democrats however, are taking us to the mat and beating us silly.

You don't take a foe who is more powerful than you to the mat.  If he is in superior strength, evade him. http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html
It's fine for you to admire Cruz as long as you understand that 75% of America disagrees with you and the shutdown.  When the Tea Party stands on principle against 75% of America it will lose.

Fiscal responsibility is one of the cornerstones of conservatism. I've not seen signs of fiscally responsible behavior from the GOPe in many, many years.

Never heard of sequester?

So, what's the worst that actually happened when Cruz "embarrassed" s number of the GOP congressional delegation?

They had to stand up and "own" their fiscally irresponsible position?

If owning their position is embarrassing, where do they get the balls to blame someone else for the embarrassment?

Senator Cruz is one person.  I think it will take more than one person to correct the coarse of America so I root for a team.  A team that uses strategy can be very powerful.  A team mate who tattles on the team is not going to make friends.  In fact some may veiw him like Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.  Ultimately not good for the organization.

The Tea Party made it impossible to compromise with the rats who control the Senate and Presidency.  The People's House is not a big enough weapon to challenge the Anointed One.  The Tea Party is now the best excuse ever for McConnell, Cornyn and Boehner.  "We can't get Cruz, Lee, and Paul to agree on anything...the rats get a pass.  Zippa Dee Do Dah."

When the GOPe is re-elected and the Tea Party challenge thwarted, how much influence do you think the far right would wield under a GOP Senate majority? After the Oct shutdown I believe the GOPe will never let Cruz lead again. 

[aligncare]

TP enthusiasts praise efforts to "primary" Republican incumbents with Lifetime ACU ratings above 90 !!!

In the current environment high lifetime ACU rating seems irrelevant.

For me the question comes down to whom I going to believe the ACU or my lying eyes?

[Lando Lincoln]

Excellent posts that help dissect the issue. 

Senator Cruz - I like him - needs to take his formidable voice and use it from the Senate bench/floor/body shaping policy and strategy.  His solo flights have been harmful and divisive.  His attempt to put himself on the same trajectory as then-Senator Obama has been self-serving and harmful.  I am particularly struck by Sowell being so critical in recent days.  Senator Lee is distancing himself also.

Now is the time for Senator Cruz to be a Statesman. 

[aligncare]

If an establishment pubbie we're behaving in the interest of the people that sent him to Washington he wouldn't be facing a primary challenge.

And while we're on this subject, ask yourself why is it so hard to get rid of self-interest-over-country incumbents?

Could it be that powerful money interests prefer the status quo? You know, the status quo. That slow march to socialism and NSA spying, health care death panels, red light cameras, iron-fisted IRS code book of the dead, the EPA jobs killing spree, and all the rest of the soul-stealing tyranny coming down on us from Washington.

Return the perp politicians to the status quo? I don't think so.

[olde north church]

If an establishment pubbie we're behaving in the interest of the people that sent him to Washington he wouldn't be facing a primary challenge.

And while we're on this subject, ask yourself why is it so hard to get rid of self-interest-over-country incumbents?

Could it be that powerful money interests prefer the status quo? You know, the status quo. That slow march to socialism and NSA spying, health care death panels, red light cameras, iron-fisted IRS code book of the dead, the EPA jobs killing spree, and all the rest of the soul-stealing tyranny coming down on us from Washington.

Return the perp politicians to the status quo? I don't think so.

Again, "Suicide is Painless".  Conservatives, well some Conservatives, are the self-preservation instinct.  Want to maintain what works and tweak that which is imperfect. 
But the vast herd, are anesthetized to reality.  Whether it's their obamaphones and EBT cards or franchise opportunities and cheap credit or through the roof stock exchange and chauffered rides through the bad sections of town, continue to remain numb.
When Krauthammer accuses Obama of acting as if he's somehow above it all, who in this country doesn't?

[aligncare]

Okay. From a different movie, "Network," I think?

Shouting from the window, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

After listening to Levin rant last night on my way home it occurred to me. As futile as his rant seemed – to some he probably sounded like a nut – we've got to open the window and keep shouting. Short of revolution, going gently into that good night won't work anymore.

[Lando Lincoln]

Okay. From a different movie, "Network," I think?

Shouting from the window, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

After listening to Levin rant last night on my way home it occurred to me. As futile as his rant seemed – to some he probably sounded like a nut – we've got to open the window and keep shouting. Short of revolution, going gently into that good night won't work anymore.

Tonite, I will listen to Levin. 

[aligncare]

Levin makes a good case. This time it's different. Obama, congress, SCOTUS is setting precedent. Conducting dangerous, anti-constitutional actions which future generations will point to and build on.

Original intent will be an obscure footnote in the Book of Governance.

This time it's different. And we've all got to open the window and keep shouting, if we want to keep the free America we all remember and love.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You don't take a foe who is more powerful than you to the mat.  If he is in superior strength, evade him. http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html
It's fine for you to admire Cruz as long as you understand that 75% of America disagrees with you and the shutdown.  When the Tea Party stands on principle against 75% of America it will lose.

Never heard of sequester?

Senator Cruz is one person.  I think it will take more than one person to correct the coarse of America so I root for a team.  A team that uses strategy can be very powerful.  A team mate who tattles on the team is not going to make friends.  In fact some may veiw him like Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.  Ultimately not good for the organization.

The Tea Party made it impossible to compromise with the rats who control the Senate and Presidency.  The People's House is not a big enough weapon to challenge the Anointed One.  The Tea Party is now the best excuse ever for McConnell, Cornyn and Boehner.  "We can't get Cruz, Lee, and Paul to agree on anything...the rats get a pass.  Zippa Dee Do Dah."

When the GOPe is re-elected and the Tea Party challenge thwarted, how much influence do you think the far right would wield under a GOP Senate majority? After the Oct shutdown I believe the GOPe will never let Cruz lead again.

Seventy-nine percent of the people of the United States disapprove of the GOP congressional delegation. Eighty one percent disapprove of Congress as a whole.

Those numbers preexisted the shut down.



 

[aligncare]

    Perspective.

[katzenjammer]

Levin makes a good case. This time it's different. Obama, congress, SCOTUS is setting precedent. Conducting dangerous, anti-constitutional actions which future generations will point to and build on.

Original intent will be an obscure footnote in the Book of Governance.

This time it's different. And we've all got to open the window and keep shouting, if we want to keep the free America we all remember and love.

Yes, it is different.  I heard most of that part of Levin's show last evening while I was cooking.  At some point, I'm sure that you recall it too, he said something to the effect that "this government is lucky/fortunate that our (American) people have a tradition/culture of remaining peaceful and trying to fix things from within the system.....  in other countries people would already be out in the streets protesting/rioting to overthrow this hardening tyranny...."  I hope that my paraphrase is accurate.  (Of course, he quickly added as he must, "Now I'm not CALLING for it!!" because so many of the "left" and "right" are just waiting to pounce on truth speakers like Levin in any way that they can.)

As I thought about what he was saying (I turned it off soon after to sit down and eat) I was wondering what the real reasons are that the citizens of this country just sit back quietly and let each and every "line in the sand" get crossed with impunity, just allow the tyranny to harden more with each passing day, see our liberties and freedom stripped away and shredded in our faces regularly.....  Does it have to do with our societal and/or cultural traditions??  Maybe, in part.  Although looking back to how this nation came to exist, a violent revolution fought against a tyrannical despot, I wonder why our "societal and/or cultural traditions" have somehow forced the memory of our origins from our collective consciousness as a people.

Personally I don't believe that the formation of our Republic under the genius (and some will say divine inspiration, and I have no quarrel with that) of our Constitution and the resultant governance model that we had upon our origin necessarily created and developed a body of "societal and/or cultural traditions" that would force the memory of the struggle for our independence and freedom from our national memory.  No, I think that what we now see as an overall malaise and apparent complete lack of attention to what is happening around us, is a result of a set of many deliberate actions to reach this point.  The list is long and familiar (at least in passing) to everyone here at this point: public education, over-promotion and hype of pop culture and other distractions, poor diet (that contributes to poor brain function), pressure to turn away from God, widespread prescription and other drug usage, destruction of the family, over promotion of the dependency state, etc.

We didn't arrive at this point by "accident" and it has been a long and steady "march through the institutions" and then some to get us here.  I guess the question that I have is can it be halted at this point?  Or is it too late?

[Bigun]

Yes, it is different.  I heard most of that part of Levin's show last evening while I was cooking.  At some point, I'm sure that you recall it too, he said something to the effect that "this government is lucky/fortunate that our (American) people have a tradition/culture of remaining peaceful and trying to fix things from within the system.....  in other countries people would already be out in the streets protesting/rioting to overthrow this hardening tyranny...."  I hope that my paraphrase is accurate.  (Of course, he quickly added as he must, "Now I'm not CALLING for it!!" because so many of the "left" and "right" are just waiting to pounce on truth speakers like Levin in any way that they can.)

As I thought about what he was saying (I turned it off soon after to sit down and eat) I was wondering what the real reasons are that the citizens of this country just sit back quietly and let each and every "line in the sand" get crossed with impunity, just allow the tyranny to harden more with each passing day, see our liberties and freedom stripped away and shredded in our faces regularly.....  Does it have to do with our societal and/or cultural traditions??  Maybe, in part.  Although looking back to how this nation came to exist, a violent revolution fought against a tyrannical despot, I wonder why our "societal and/or cultural traditions" have somehow forced the memory of our origins from our collective consciousness as a people.

Personally I don't believe that the formation of our Republic under the genius (and some will say divine inspiration, and I have no quarrel with that) of our Constitution and the resultant governance model that we had upon our origin necessarily created and developed a body of "societal and/or cultural traditions" that would force the memory of the struggle for our independence and freedom from our national memory.  No, I think that what we now see as an overall malaise and apparent complete lack of attention to what is happening around us, is a result of a set of many deliberate actions to reach this point.  The list is long and familiar (at least in passing) to everyone here at this point: public education, over-promotion and hype of pop culture and other distractions, poor diet (that contributes to poor brain function), pressure to turn away from God, widespread prescription and other drug usage, destruction of the family, over promotion of the dependency state, etc.

We didn't arrive at this point by "accident" and it has been a long and steady "march through the institutions" and then some to get us here.  I guess the question that I have is can it be halted at this point?  Or is it too late?

Well said!  Well said indeed!

When I think of what the folks who gave us this once great republic endured to do that less that 5 human lifetimes ago (if you reckon a human lifetime to be 75 years) it literally brings me to tears if I dwell on it very long. If they can see what we, their off spring, have become they must be hiding their heads in SHAME!

None of what has happened to us is by accident! The ink wasn't dry on the Constitution before the forces of evil began trying to undermine and destroy it! They have been very successful in their efforts and most of us are so blissfully ignorant of our heritage that we don't even realize that anything has happened!

I could write a book but will stop right here instead before my blood pressure gets to a dangerous level!

[Luis Gonzalez]

Senator Cruz is one person.  I think it will take more than one person to correct the coarse of America so I root for a team.  A team that uses strategy can be very powerful.  A team mate who tattles on the team is not going to make friends.  In fact some may veiw him like Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.  Ultimately not good for the organization.

The team that you (all of us actually) root for has been in the game the entire time that the nation has been on this course. To one degree or another, there has always been a GOP "team" on the field, yet, here we are, $17 trillion in debt, $127.9 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and our "team" is now going to "fix" Obamacare.

So while I agree with the whole "team" thing, I have to wonder whether our team is basically the Washington Generals to the DNC's Globetrotters, just there to give the appearance that there's a game going on.

[katzenjammer]

Well said!  Well said indeed!

When I think of what the folks who gave us this once great republic endured to do that less that 5 human lifetimes ago (if you reckon a human lifetime to be 75 years) it literally brings me to tears if I dwell on it very long. If they can see what we, their off spring, have become they must be hiding their heads in SHAME!

None of what has happened to us is by accident! The ink wasn't dry on the Constitution before the forces of evil began trying to undermine and destroy it! They have been very successful in their efforts and most of us are so blissfully ignorant of our heritage that we don't even realize that anything has happened!

I could write a book but will stop right here instead before my blood pressure gets to a dangerous level!

I understand, totally.  Regarding your last sentence,  I understand that all too well.  It is why I simply no longer have any patience for those that still wish to view things from the perspective of a "game."  This never was a game, and because so many have been swayed to view it as one, the nation has been brought to the brink of extinction.  And yes, the destruction began a few minutes into the first period/quarter/inning/set....