Ryan-Murray Budget Deal in Shambles

[Luis Gonzalez]

Amazing analysis Oceander.  I'm feeling kind of dumb after reading it and wondering why I never considered the strategy, of the military cuts as a proof for other entitlement cuts, but it makes perfect sense and is undoubtedly true IMO.  I don't know where else I could turn to find your kind of cut-through-the-bull focused logic.  It's rare indeed these days.  GOPbreifingroom is lucky to have you.

 

[EC]

OK.

That's a fair suggestion.

Can you give some examples of the kinds of cuts you're talking about?

A few minor suggestions:

No food stamps.
No subsidized housing.
No child benefit.
Cash up front (or proof of insurance) when using the ER as their doctor.

States individually may do as they please, that's part of the deal, but the federal government is supposed to punish law breakers, not reward them.

I would give them one federal benefit. $500 and a one way plane ticket to their country of origin. The $500 would be compensation for the inconvenience of taking their fingerprints and a DNA sample on their way out of the country.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I liked your Reagan quote but your grouphug emoticon made me feel oddly homophobic.  Which according to the LGBTQ community means I'm secretly gay.  Which according to the bible means I'm damned to Hell.  Which according to my wife means I've been drinking.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

A few minor suggestions:

No food stamps.
No subsidized housing.
No child benefit.
Cash up front (or proof of insurance) when using the ER as their doctor.

States individually may do as they please, that's part of the deal, but the federal government is supposed to punish law breakers, not reward them.

I view illegal immigrants as little more than trespassers.  And I view trespassers like I view speeders.  I speed all the time.  The speed limit is just a man made law with no more authority than many of the other 4,450 federal crimes.  http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/06/revisiting-the-explosive-growth-of-federal-crimes  Illegals are here in the US to earn a living.  They live here without doing anything to get caught and deported.  I don't see 12 million terrorists or security threats, or criminals or leaches.  In fact I think they are a net gain for our economy because the baby boomer are retiring and somebody has to pay.  Of course I also believe those illegals are working the crap jobs that Americans won't as long as government has got them covered.

For me the problem is not illegals getting a piece of the safety net pie.  It's the safety net pie.  There are too many ways that the government enslaves.  Through medicaid, social security, unemployment insurance, tax breaks for earth friendlyness, military benefits, child tax deductions...we are almost all suckling at the teat of government redistribution in some form or other.

Taking illegals out of the equation doesn't solve the problem of government dependency and misguided control.  It just allows those agencies to give more money to fewer beneficiaries or advertise for replacements from the vast majority of beneficiaries...legal Americans. 

[EC]

If they are trespassers, the Castle Doctrine applies. Open season on illegals!   

I have said before that the American system is hopelessly expensive and tangled for people who want to immigrate legally. Some of the horror stories you wouldn't believe. But allowing illegals to stay undercuts the value of legal citizenship status. At the moment, if I wanted to move to the USA permanently, I would do so illegally. It's easier, cheaper and quicker. Also less intrusive.

It'd take me about a week to get the required ID not to be bothered after arriving on the Visa waiver program, and most of that time would be waiting for it to be prepared. Actually already have a perfectly good and valid driving license from one of the states. 



 

[Luis Gonzalez]

A few minor suggestions:

No food stamps.
No subsidized housing.
No child benefit.
Cash up front (or proof of insurance) when using the ER as their doctor.

States individually may do as they please, that's part of the deal, but the federal government is supposed to punish law breakers, not reward them.

I would give them one federal benefit. $500 and a one way plane ticket to their country of origin. The $500 would be compensation for the inconvenience of taking their fingerprints and a DNA sample on their way out of the country.

Good start.

H.ere are a few problems:

• Illegal aliens are not eligible for the SNAP program (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program), BUT our Federal government is encouraging the violation of the law.. The States meanwhile, are simply following along.
• You're talking about a total (according to available data from HUD) of about 0.4% (@30,000 people) of all people in federally founded housing classifying as "ineligible aliens", with half of them being illegal aliens with US born children, and under the SCOTUS's current interpretation of the XIV Amendment to the Constitution, children born of illegal aliens on US soil are automatically granted citizenship, and because of that, thejr families become eligible for Federal housing. I'm with you on this, but I don't see throwing 15,000 people out of housing as making a big dent on the problem, AND the notion that less than 30K illegals out of the millions in the country are receiving federal houising assistance tends to cement the argument that they're NOT as much a drag on society as we'd like to argue that they are.
• Child benefits... the US born children of illegal aliens are US citizens. I don't agree with that ruling, but it is considered settled law at this time. If conservatives cut benefits off to kids that are considered US citizens, they will lose that battle in both the Federal Courts and the court of public opinion
• Cash up front for doctors or ER. The applicable law there is the The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), passed in 1986 under Reagan. Are Conservatives ready to bring down the conservative icon of recent American politics in order to deny emergency health services to women and children? Because you KNOW that's how the idea will be marketed by the media, PLUS going back to that interpretation of the XIV Amendment, you'd be denying health care to people who are as legally eligible for Federal funding as multigenerational American citizens.

The problem here is government, not people. Flawed (but established) interpretations of laws, and the outright illegal action y the Executive to enforce those laws that it disfavors.

We have a power-drunk, out of control government acting unconstitutionally and with complete disregard for the rule of law.

THAT is the true issue here.

It's complicated but I do agree with Oceander.

If we're going to ask that the left slay some of their sacred cows, we're going to have to kill a few of our own in good faith.

There's going to be pain for everyone.