Author Topic: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote  (Read 1886 times)

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US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« on: February 12, 2014, 02:42:04 AM »


US Attorney General Eric Holder is insisting that states allow former prisoners to vote. “It is time to fundamentally reconsider laws that permanently disenfranchise people who are no longer under federal or state supervision,” Holder said during a speech he gave yesterday morning at Georgetown University Law Center. Presently, 11 states do not let ex-prisoners vote ever again, even if they are not on probation.


Holder highlighted that there are 1 in 5 black adults in Florida, Kentucky, and Alabama who are not granted permission to vote due to their criminal convictions. Nationwide, 5.8 million people are denied the right to vote because of their past felonies.

The Attorney General made clear in his speech about present voting bans in a larger historical relation. “Although well over a century has passed since post-Reconstruction states used these measures to strip African-Americans of their most fundamental rights, the impact of felony disenfranchisement on modern communities of color remains both disproportionate and unacceptable,” he told the audience. On a national level, he claims that 1 in 13 black adults do not have the right to vote due to laws regarding disenfranchisement.

Holder strongly urged that by letting ex-cons vote, the policy could be a vital part of successfully reintegrating them back into society. "By perpetuating the stigma and isolation imposed on formerly incarcerated individuals, these laws increase the likelihood they will commit future crimes," he said. He ended by speaking about, convict disenfranchisement, “It is unwise, it is unjust, and it is not in keeping with our democratic values. These laws deserve to be not only reconsidered, but repealed.”

http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_02_12/US-Attorney-General-proposes-states-allow-ex-felons-to-vote-7271/

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 07:47:31 AM »
Will he include those who reside in cemeteries? :whistle:
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great and true principles.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 12:02:26 PM »
This is not a half-bad idea, at least in outline form.  One of the basic arguments for punishing crime the way we do is to rehabilitate the offender; by necessary implication, then, when an offender's punishment ceases, that offender is rehabilitated, until and unless he or she proves otherwise.  If rehabilitated, then such an offender is now qualified to resume his or her place in civil society and that place necessarily includes the right to vote.  Recidivists, particularly if they go from bad to worse, could reaonably be excluded, but I see no reason why someone who is ostensibly rehabilitated should be denied the rights that a full member of civil society otherwise possesses.

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 08:53:46 PM »
This is not a half-bad idea, at least in outline form.  One of the basic arguments for punishing crime the way we do is to rehabilitate the offender; by necessary implication, then, when an offender's punishment ceases, that offender is rehabilitated, until and unless he or she proves otherwise.  If rehabilitated, then such an offender is now qualified to resume his or her place in civil society and that place necessarily includes the right to vote.  Recidivists, particularly if they go from bad to worse, could reaonably be excluded, but I see no reason why someone who is ostensibly rehabilitated should be denied the rights that a full member of civil society otherwise possesses.

We know who these people will vote for. They will vote for Democrats

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 03:56:30 AM »
We know who these people will vote for. They will vote for Democrats

That does not matter. If they have paid for their crime, in full, they have paid. Their choice of vote is between them and the voting booth.

I would prevent anyone who has not paid in full from voting. Early release on parole, for example? You can't vote until the parole period is over. Governor's pardon? You can't vote until your term is up, regardless.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 06:12:57 AM »
That does not matter. If they have paid for their crime, in full, they have paid. Their choice of vote is between them and the voting booth.

I would prevent anyone who has not paid in full from voting. Early release on parole, for example? You can't vote until the parole period is over. Governor's pardon? You can't vote until your term is up, regardless.

I do not want a rapist or child molester voting at all.Convicted felons have demonstrated poor judgment and should not be trusted with a vote.Convicted prisoners have had their right to freedom revoked by not following the regulations their society has put in place. They should not then have say in how that society is governed. They must realise that those are the consequences of their offence.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 06:15:47 AM by SPQR »

Offline olde north church

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 08:15:18 AM »
There are too many things which pass for felonious behavior these days.  Many of which, John or Jane Q. Public commit and average of 3 times a day, without even realizing it.  Considering "ignorance is no excuse", the prisons would be full.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 08:34:35 AM »
I do not want a rapist or child molester voting at all.Convicted felons have demonstrated poor judgment and should not be trusted with a vote.Convicted prisoners have had their right to freedom revoked by not following the regulations their society has put in place. They should not then have say in how that society is governed. They must realise that those are the consequences of their offence.

I have zero desire in child molesters continuing to breathe.

But no. You are doing what the left do. Setting limits. If you wish to do that, do it properly. Me - I'd only permit property owning tax payers to vote, but that's just me.
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Offline massadvj

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 08:47:31 AM »
I think each citizen should get votes commensurate with the amount in taxes he pays.  This should apply at every level.  If I pay $40K in taxes, then I get 40 votes, someone who pays $1K gets one vote, and so forth.  If you get tax credits, entitlements or are a government worker, you get no votes at that level.  State employees wouldn't be allowed to vote in state elections, federal employees wouldn't be allowed to vote in federal elections, etc.

I am employed by the state of Pennsylvania, but I would readily support this proposal.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 08:30:40 PM »
There are too many things which pass for felonious behavior these days.  Many of which, John or Jane Q. Public commit and average of 3 times a day, without even realizing it.  Considering "ignorance is no excuse", the prisons would be full.

Convicted felons should not retain the right to vote because they broke the law in a serious way.Convicted felons are in prison for a reason. They committed a crime that was of an extremely serious nature, whether it be robbing a bank, killing someone, raping someone, grand theft auto, etc. They did not make a level-headed decision and ended up in jail. We do not need these type of people voting for the people that run our country. They obviously could not make a decision governing their own lives, so we should definitely not allow them to make those kind of decisions for the rest of us.If they don't respect it then why should they care what laws are made. Also, who knows if once they come out that they won't break the law again.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 09:01:14 PM by SPQR »

Offline olde north church

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 12:00:49 PM »
Convicted felons should not retain the right to vote because they broke the law in a serious way.Convicted felons are in prison for a reason. They committed a crime that was of an extremely serious nature, whether it be robbing a bank, killing someone, raping someone, grand theft auto, etc. They did not make a level-headed decision and ended up in jail. We do not need these type of people voting for the people that run our country. They obviously could not make a decision governing their own lives, so we should definitely not allow them to make those kind of decisions for the rest of us.If they don't respect it then why should they care what laws are made. Also, who knows if once they come out that they won't break the law again.

I don't discount there are some very nasty people who share our air.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 12:08:21 PM »
Convicted felons should not retain the right to vote because they broke the law in a serious way.Convicted felons are in prison for a reason. They committed a crime that was of an extremely serious nature, whether it be robbing a bank, killing someone, raping someone, grand theft auto, etc. They did not make a level-headed decision and ended up in jail. We do not need these type of people voting for the people that run our country. They obviously could not make a decision governing their own lives, so we should definitely not allow them to make those kind of decisions for the rest of us.If they don't respect it then why should they care what laws are made. Also, who knows if once they come out that they won't break the law again.

So the whole "pay your debt to society" thing is just so much sloganeering.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 12:13:39 PM by Luis Gonzalez »
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 12:15:52 PM »
IMO.....you serve your term...you should regain ALL your rights and privileges as a citizen...WHICH INCLUDES VOTING!

Regarding pardoned perps.....if you're pardoned, it should work the same way.  Otherwise, you're still being punished by the state by not being allowed to vote.

"Pardoned" doesn't mean early parole or early release.   It shouldn't only refer to incarceration.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2014, 06:08:11 PM »
IMO.....you serve your term...you should regain ALL your rights and privileges as a citizen...WHICH INCLUDES VOTING!

Regarding pardoned perps.....if you're pardoned, it should work the same way.  Otherwise, you're still being punished by the state by not being allowed to vote.

"Pardoned" doesn't mean early parole or early release.   It shouldn't only refer to incarceration.

Voting is a privilege.They lost that privilege when they committed the crime, plain and simple. They made the decision to commit a felony, which proves they are incapable of making good decisions for society. They know what crime they are committing, and if they do not know what crime they are committing that is bad luck. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law. If they want their rights back they must go through a judge,Governor of a state or the POTUS.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 06:31:50 PM by SPQR »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 07:01:10 PM »
Voting is a privilege.They lost that privilege when they committed the crime, plain and simple. They made the decision to commit a felony, which proves they are incapable of making good decisions for society. They know what crime they are committing, and if they do not know what crime they are committing that is bad luck. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law. If they want their rights back they must go through a judge,Governor of a state or the POTUS.

So then, the whole "paid their debt to society" thing is just so much empty sloganeering.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:02:01 PM by Luis Gonzalez »
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 07:21:11 PM »
So the whole "pay your debt to society" thing is just so much sloganeering.
Yep. And some of the felonies, are for possession of substances which most states have or will soon decriminalize, or legalize.

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 07:50:48 PM »
Yep. And some of the felonies, are for possession of substances which most states have or will soon decriminalize, or legalize.

AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 08:01:50 PM »
So then, the whole "paid their debt to society" thing is just so much empty sloganeering.
A fistfight in a bar could be "overcharged" and result in a felony conviction. Lose voting right forever, over a fistfight in a bar?


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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2014, 08:07:44 PM »
A fistfight in a bar could be "overcharged" and result in a felony conviction. Lose voting right forever, over a fistfight in a bar?

The last time I checked fistfighting is considered an aggravated assault which is a felony depending on the state.The definitions of the different degrees of aggravated assault vary according to state laws. In general, however, first degree aggravated assault occurs when the act is committed with deliberately premeditated malice aforethought. This means there must be either an intentional attempt to commit serious bodily injury or intentional serious bodily injury must have been committed . Aggravated assault penalties depend on the degree and any injuries that may have occurred. Penalties also depend on the state where the assault took place. Aggravated assault charges can be treated as misdemeanors in some states, while other states will treat this charge as a felony. A conviction of an aggravated assault charge can have serious consequences on your life, especially if it is treated as a felony conviction. Many places of employment will not hire convicted felons, and if you already hold a professional license, you may not be able to get it renewed with a sustained felony conviction. A felon can also lose basic rights for a number of years, such as the right to vote, serve on a jury, or own a firearm.In states that have “three-strikes” laws, such as California, a felony aggravated assault conviction can also count as a “strike.” This means that if you already have two other felony convictions, or are convicted with other felonies in the same trial, a third strike for aggravated assault can put you in prison for life.Again, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 08:12:36 PM by SPQR »

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2014, 08:16:03 PM »
AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.

The 14th Amendment was part of the Reconstruction clauses.The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in the Congress.Section 1 of the amendment formally defines United States citizenship and also protects various civil rights from being abridged or denied by any state or state actor. Abridgment or denial of those civil rights by private persons is not addressed by this amendment; the Supreme Court held in the Civil Rights Cases (1883) that the amendment was limited to "state action" and, therefore, did not authorize the Congress to outlaw racial discrimination by private individuals or organizations (though Congress can sometimes reach such discrimination via other parts of the Constitution).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 08:18:28 PM by SPQR »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2014, 09:03:41 PM »
The 14th Amendment was part of the Reconstruction clauses.The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in the Congress.Section 1 of the amendment formally defines United States citizenship and also protects various civil rights from being abridged or denied by any state or state actor. Abridgment or denial of those civil rights by private persons is not addressed by this amendment; the Supreme Court held in the Civil Rights Cases (1883) that the amendment was limited to "state action" and, therefore, did not authorize the Congress to outlaw racial discrimination by private individuals or organizations (though Congress can sometimes reach such discrimination via other parts of the Constitution).

Stock dodge and weave.

Since the XIV Amendment addressed slaves, it's no longer applicable to anything in our justice system, and we may as well just run some White Out over it... is that your basic response?
“[Euthanasia] is what any State medical service has sooner or later got to face. If you are going to be kept alive in institutions run by and paid for by the State, you must accept the State’s right to economize when necessary …” The Ministry of Fear by Graham Green (New York: Penguin Books [1943] 2005, p. 165).

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2014, 09:06:50 PM »
Stock dodge and weave.

Since the XIV Amendment addressed slaves, it's no longer applicable to anything in our justice system, and we may as well just run some White Out over it... is that your basic response?

First. I would not take advice from that Obama/Libatard apologist. He is the last person on this planet I want to get my legal advice. Its like getting legal advice from Ron Kuby or the late William Kunzsler who are themselves liberal and would like to tear our system of justice for criminals. Are you a Obama apologist for criminals?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:20:27 PM by SPQR »

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2014, 09:08:52 PM »
The last time I checked fistfighting is considered an aggravated assault which is a felony depending on the state.The definitions of the different degrees of aggravated assault vary according to state laws. In general, however, first degree aggravated assault occurs when the act is committed with deliberately premeditated malice aforethought. This means there must be either an intentional attempt to commit serious bodily injury or intentional serious bodily injury must have been committed . Aggravated assault penalties depend on the degree and any injuries that may have occurred. Penalties also depend on the state where the assault took place. Aggravated assault charges can be treated as misdemeanors in some states, while other states will treat this charge as a felony. A conviction of an aggravated assault charge can have serious consequences on your life, especially if it is treated as a felony conviction. Many places of employment will not hire convicted felons, and if you already hold a professional license, you may not be able to get it renewed with a sustained felony conviction. A felon can also lose basic rights for a number of years, such as the right to vote, serve on a jury, or own a firearm.In states that have “three-strikes” laws, such as California, a felony aggravated assault conviction can also count as a “strike.” This means that if you already have two other felony convictions, or are convicted with other felonies in the same trial, a third strike for aggravated assault can put you in prison for life.Again, ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Yeah, I understand all of that. I'm familiar with California, too. We are just arguing "felony." Forget about 3rd strike which is an entirely different subject.

So one barfight and you never vote again, if the DA prosecuted it as a felony? Or one possession of marijuana and you never vote again, if the DA prosecuted it as a felony? (I recall that was the situation back in the 1970s when pot was still a really, really big deal)

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2014, 09:10:56 PM »
Yeah, I understand all of that. I'm familiar with California, too. We are just arguing "felony." Forget about 3rd strike which is an entirely different subject.

So one barfight and you never vote again, if the DA prosecuted it as a felony? Or one possession of marijuana and you never vote again, if the DA prosecuted it as a felony? (I recall that was the situation back in the 1970s when pot was still a really, really big deal)


Those things are up to the District Attorney and police departments. They make the call.. With pot, it depends how much you have with you.That call is up to the police and District Attorney.As of January 1, 2011, possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less of marijuana is an infraction, punishable by a maximum $100 fine (plus fees) with no criminal record under Ca Health & Safety Code 11357b. With added fees, the cost can be as high as $485.
(Prior to 2011, possession of one ounce or less of marijuana was a misdemeanor, but convictions under this section are expunged from the record after two years under Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5 and 11361.7.)

Possession of larger amounts of marijuana is a misdemeanor punishable by up to $500 and six months is jail under Health & Safety Code 11357c. Possession of hashish or concentrated cannabis is an optional misdemeanor or felony ("wobbler") under Health & Safety Code 11357a. However, under Prop. 36 first- and second- time possession-only offenders may demand a treatment program instead of jail. Upon successful completion of the program, their conviction is erased. Possession (and personal use cultivation) offenders can also avoid conviction by making a preguilty plea under Penal Code 1000, in which case their charges are dismissed upon successful completion of a diversion program.

Possession of one ounce or less in a vehicle while driving may also be charged under Vehicle Code 23222, which is treated identically to HSC 11357 b.
No arrest or imprisonment is allowed for possession of less than one ounce of marijuana. However, police often get around this provision by charging minor offenders with felony intent to sell.


http://www.canorml.org/camjlaws.html
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:18:42 PM by SPQR »

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2014, 09:22:14 PM »
Those things are up to the District Attorney and police departments. They make the call.. With pot, it depends how much you have with you.That call is up to the police and District Attorney.As of January 1, 2011, possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less of marijuana is an infraction, punishable by a maximum $100 fine (plus fees) with no criminal record under Ca Health & Safety Code 11357b. With added fees, the cost can be as high as $485.
(Prior to 2011, possession of one ounce or less of marijuana was a misdemeanor, but convictions under this section are expunged from the record after two years under Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5 and 11361.7.)

Possession of larger amounts of marijuana is a misdemeanor punishable by up to $500 and six months is jail under Health & Safety Code 11357c. Possession of hashish or concentrated cannabis is an optional misdemeanor or felony ("wobbler") under Health & Safety Code 11357a. However, under Prop. 36 first- and second- time possession-only offenders may demand a treatment program instead of jail. Upon successful completion of the program, their conviction is erased. Possession (and personal use cultivation) offenders can also avoid conviction by making a preguilty plea under Penal Code 1000, in which case their charges are dismissed upon successful completion of a diversion program.

Possession of one ounce or less in a vehicle while driving may also be charged under Vehicle Code 23222, which is treated identically to HSC 11357 b.
No arrest or imprisonment is allowed for possession of less than one ounce of marijuana. However, police often get around this provision by charging minor offenders with felony intent to sell.


http://www.canorml.org/camjlaws.html


Marijuana is also illegal under the federal Controlled Substances Act. Federal charges are typically brought only in large cases where commercial distribution is suspected (e.g., cultivation of several hundred plants).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:24:24 PM by SPQR »


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