Author Topic: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote  (Read 2042 times)

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US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« on: February 12, 2014, 02:42:04 AM »

Online rangerrebew

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 07:47:31 AM »
Will he include those who reside in cemeteries? :whistle:
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
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Offline Oceander

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 12:02:26 PM »
This is not a half-bad idea, at least in outline form.  One of the basic arguments for punishing crime the way we do is to rehabilitate the offender; by necessary implication, then, when an offender's punishment ceases, that offender is rehabilitated, until and unless he or she proves otherwise.  If rehabilitated, then such an offender is now qualified to resume his or her place in civil society and that place necessarily includes the right to vote.  Recidivists, particularly if they go from bad to worse, could reaonably be excluded, but I see no reason why someone who is ostensibly rehabilitated should be denied the rights that a full member of civil society otherwise possesses.

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 08:53:46 PM »
This is not a half-bad idea, at least in outline form.  One of the basic arguments for punishing crime the way we do is to rehabilitate the offender; by necessary implication, then, when an offender's punishment ceases, that offender is rehabilitated, until and unless he or she proves otherwise.  If rehabilitated, then such an offender is now qualified to resume his or her place in civil society and that place necessarily includes the right to vote.  Recidivists, particularly if they go from bad to worse, could reaonably be excluded, but I see no reason why someone who is ostensibly rehabilitated should be denied the rights that a full member of civil society otherwise possesses.

We know who these people will vote for. They will vote for Democrats

Offline EC

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 03:56:30 AM »
We know who these people will vote for. They will vote for Democrats

That does not matter. If they have paid for their crime, in full, they have paid. Their choice of vote is between them and the voting booth.

I would prevent anyone who has not paid in full from voting. Early release on parole, for example? You can't vote until the parole period is over. Governor's pardon? You can't vote until your term is up, regardless.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 06:12:57 AM »
That does not matter. If they have paid for their crime, in full, they have paid. Their choice of vote is between them and the voting booth.

I would prevent anyone who has not paid in full from voting. Early release on parole, for example? You can't vote until the parole period is over. Governor's pardon? You can't vote until your term is up, regardless.

I do not want a rapist or child molester voting at all.Convicted felons have demonstrated poor judgment and should not be trusted with a vote.Convicted prisoners have had their right to freedom revoked by not following the regulations their society has put in place. They should not then have say in how that society is governed. They must realise that those are the consequences of their offence.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 06:15:47 AM by SPQR »

Offline olde north church

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 08:15:18 AM »
There are too many things which pass for felonious behavior these days.  Many of which, John or Jane Q. Public commit and average of 3 times a day, without even realizing it.  Considering "ignorance is no excuse", the prisons would be full.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline EC

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 08:34:35 AM »
I do not want a rapist or child molester voting at all.Convicted felons have demonstrated poor judgment and should not be trusted with a vote.Convicted prisoners have had their right to freedom revoked by not following the regulations their society has put in place. They should not then have say in how that society is governed. They must realise that those are the consequences of their offence.

I have zero desire in child molesters continuing to breathe.

But no. You are doing what the left do. Setting limits. If you wish to do that, do it properly. Me - I'd only permit property owning tax payers to vote, but that's just me.
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Online massadvj

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 08:47:31 AM »
I think each citizen should get votes commensurate with the amount in taxes he pays.  This should apply at every level.  If I pay $40K in taxes, then I get 40 votes, someone who pays $1K gets one vote, and so forth.  If you get tax credits, entitlements or are a government worker, you get no votes at that level.  State employees wouldn't be allowed to vote in state elections, federal employees wouldn't be allowed to vote in federal elections, etc.

I am employed by the state of Pennsylvania, but I would readily support this proposal.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 08:30:40 PM »
There are too many things which pass for felonious behavior these days.  Many of which, John or Jane Q. Public commit and average of 3 times a day, without even realizing it.  Considering "ignorance is no excuse", the prisons would be full.

Convicted felons should not retain the right to vote because they broke the law in a serious way.Convicted felons are in prison for a reason. They committed a crime that was of an extremely serious nature, whether it be robbing a bank, killing someone, raping someone, grand theft auto, etc. They did not make a level-headed decision and ended up in jail. We do not need these type of people voting for the people that run our country. They obviously could not make a decision governing their own lives, so we should definitely not allow them to make those kind of decisions for the rest of us.If they don't respect it then why should they care what laws are made. Also, who knows if once they come out that they won't break the law again.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 09:01:14 PM by SPQR »

Offline olde north church

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 12:00:49 PM »
Convicted felons should not retain the right to vote because they broke the law in a serious way.Convicted felons are in prison for a reason. They committed a crime that was of an extremely serious nature, whether it be robbing a bank, killing someone, raping someone, grand theft auto, etc. They did not make a level-headed decision and ended up in jail. We do not need these type of people voting for the people that run our country. They obviously could not make a decision governing their own lives, so we should definitely not allow them to make those kind of decisions for the rest of us.If they don't respect it then why should they care what laws are made. Also, who knows if once they come out that they won't break the law again.

I don't discount there are some very nasty people who share our air.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 12:08:21 PM »
Convicted felons should not retain the right to vote because they broke the law in a serious way.Convicted felons are in prison for a reason. They committed a crime that was of an extremely serious nature, whether it be robbing a bank, killing someone, raping someone, grand theft auto, etc. They did not make a level-headed decision and ended up in jail. We do not need these type of people voting for the people that run our country. They obviously could not make a decision governing their own lives, so we should definitely not allow them to make those kind of decisions for the rest of us.If they don't respect it then why should they care what laws are made. Also, who knows if once they come out that they won't break the law again.

So the whole "pay your debt to society" thing is just so much sloganeering.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 12:13:39 PM by Luis Gonzalez »

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 12:15:52 PM »
IMO.....you serve your term...you should regain ALL your rights and privileges as a citizen...WHICH INCLUDES VOTING!

Regarding pardoned perps.....if you're pardoned, it should work the same way.  Otherwise, you're still being punished by the state by not being allowed to vote.

"Pardoned" doesn't mean early parole or early release.   It shouldn't only refer to incarceration.
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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2014, 06:08:11 PM »
IMO.....you serve your term...you should regain ALL your rights and privileges as a citizen...WHICH INCLUDES VOTING!

Regarding pardoned perps.....if you're pardoned, it should work the same way.  Otherwise, you're still being punished by the state by not being allowed to vote.

"Pardoned" doesn't mean early parole or early release.   It shouldn't only refer to incarceration.

Voting is a privilege.They lost that privilege when they committed the crime, plain and simple. They made the decision to commit a felony, which proves they are incapable of making good decisions for society. They know what crime they are committing, and if they do not know what crime they are committing that is bad luck. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law. If they want their rights back they must go through a judge,Governor of a state or the POTUS.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 06:31:50 PM by SPQR »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 07:01:10 PM »
Voting is a privilege.They lost that privilege when they committed the crime, plain and simple. They made the decision to commit a felony, which proves they are incapable of making good decisions for society. They know what crime they are committing, and if they do not know what crime they are committing that is bad luck. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law. If they want their rights back they must go through a judge,Governor of a state or the POTUS.

So then, the whole "paid their debt to society" thing is just so much empty sloganeering.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:02:01 PM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 07:21:11 PM »
So the whole "pay your debt to society" thing is just so much sloganeering.
Yep. And some of the felonies, are for possession of substances which most states have or will soon decriminalize, or legalize.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 07:50:48 PM »
Yep. And some of the felonies, are for possession of substances which most states have or will soon decriminalize, or legalize.

AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 08:01:50 PM »
So then, the whole "paid their debt to society" thing is just so much empty sloganeering.
A fistfight in a bar could be "overcharged" and result in a felony conviction. Lose voting right forever, over a fistfight in a bar?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2014, 08:07:44 PM »
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 08:12:36 PM by SPQR »

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2014, 08:16:03 PM »
AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.

The 14th Amendment was part of the Reconstruction clauses.The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in the Congress.Section 1 of the amendment formally defines United States citizenship and also protects various civil rights from being abridged or denied by any state or state actor. Abridgment or denial of those civil rights by private persons is not addressed by this amendment; the Supreme Court held in the Civil Rights Cases (1883) that the amendment was limited to "state action" and, therefore, did not authorize the Congress to outlaw racial discrimination by private individuals or organizations (though Congress can sometimes reach such discrimination via other parts of the Constitution).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 08:18:28 PM by SPQR »

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2014, 09:03:41 PM »
The 14th Amendment was part of the Reconstruction clauses.The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War. The amendment was bitterly contested, particularly by Southern states, which were forced to ratify it in order for them to regain representation in the Congress.Section 1 of the amendment formally defines United States citizenship and also protects various civil rights from being abridged or denied by any state or state actor. Abridgment or denial of those civil rights by private persons is not addressed by this amendment; the Supreme Court held in the Civil Rights Cases (1883) that the amendment was limited to "state action" and, therefore, did not authorize the Congress to outlaw racial discrimination by private individuals or organizations (though Congress can sometimes reach such discrimination via other parts of the Constitution).

Stock dodge and weave.

Since the XIV Amendment addressed slaves, it's no longer applicable to anything in our justice system, and we may as well just run some White Out over it... is that your basic response?

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2014, 09:06:50 PM »
Stock dodge and weave.

Since the XIV Amendment addressed slaves, it's no longer applicable to anything in our justice system, and we may as well just run some White Out over it... is that your basic response?

First. I would not take advice from that Obama/Libatard apologist. He is the last person on this planet I want to get my legal advice. Its like getting legal advice from Ron Kuby or the late William Kunzsler who are themselves liberal and would like to tear our system of justice for criminals. Are you a Obama apologist for criminals?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:20:27 PM by SPQR »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2014, 09:08:52 PM »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

SPQR

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2014, 09:10:56 PM »
Yeah, I understand all of that. I'm familiar with California, too. We are just arguing "felony." Forget about 3rd strike which is an entirely different subject.

So one barfight and you never vote again, if the DA prosecuted it as a felony? Or one possession of marijuana and you never vote again, if the DA prosecuted it as a felony? (I recall that was the situation back in the 1970s when pot was still a really, really big deal)

Those things are up to the District Attorney and police departments. They make the call.. With pot, it depends how much you have with you.That call is up to the police and District Attorney.As of January 1, 2011, possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less of marijuana is an infraction, punishable by a maximum $100 fine (plus fees) with no criminal record under Ca Health & Safety Code 11357b. With added fees, the cost can be as high as $485.
(Prior to 2011, possession of one ounce or less of marijuana was a misdemeanor, but convictions under this section are expunged from the record after two years under Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5 and 11361.7.)

Possession of larger amounts of marijuana is a misdemeanor punishable by up to $500 and six months is jail under Health & Safety Code 11357c. Possession of hashish or concentrated cannabis is an optional misdemeanor or felony ("wobbler") under Health & Safety Code 11357a. However, under Prop. 36 first- and second- time possession-only offenders may demand a treatment program instead of jail. Upon successful completion of the program, their conviction is erased. Possession (and personal use cultivation) offenders can also avoid conviction by making a preguilty plea under Penal Code 1000, in which case their charges are dismissed upon successful completion of a diversion program.

Possession of one ounce or less in a vehicle while driving may also be charged under Vehicle Code 23222, which is treated identically to HSC 11357 b.
No arrest or imprisonment is allowed for possession of less than one ounce of marijuana. However, police often get around this provision by charging minor offenders with felony intent to sell.


http://www.canorml.org/camjlaws.html
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:18:42 PM by SPQR »

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Re: US Attorney General proposes states allow ex-felons to vote
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2014, 09:22:14 PM »
Those things are up to the District Attorney and police departments. They make the call.. With pot, it depends how much you have with you.That call is up to the police and District Attorney.As of January 1, 2011, possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less of marijuana is an infraction, punishable by a maximum $100 fine (plus fees) with no criminal record under Ca Health & Safety Code 11357b. With added fees, the cost can be as high as $485.
(Prior to 2011, possession of one ounce or less of marijuana was a misdemeanor, but convictions under this section are expunged from the record after two years under Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5 and 11361.7.)

Possession of larger amounts of marijuana is a misdemeanor punishable by up to $500 and six months is jail under Health & Safety Code 11357c. Possession of hashish or concentrated cannabis is an optional misdemeanor or felony ("wobbler") under Health & Safety Code 11357a. However, under Prop. 36 first- and second- time possession-only offenders may demand a treatment program instead of jail. Upon successful completion of the program, their conviction is erased. Possession (and personal use cultivation) offenders can also avoid conviction by making a preguilty plea under Penal Code 1000, in which case their charges are dismissed upon successful completion of a diversion program.

Possession of one ounce or less in a vehicle while driving may also be charged under Vehicle Code 23222, which is treated identically to HSC 11357 b.
No arrest or imprisonment is allowed for possession of less than one ounce of marijuana. However, police often get around this provision by charging minor offenders with felony intent to sell.


http://www.canorml.org/camjlaws.html

Marijuana is also illegal under the federal Controlled Substances Act. Federal charges are typically brought only in large cases where commercial distribution is suspected (e.g., cultivation of several hundred plants).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:24:24 PM by SPQR »


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