You Don't Understand

[EC]

Just got hit by that out of the blue tonight. Was discussing minimum wage with my wife, a confirmed socialist who's answer to everything is "the government should do something about it," and that dropped out of her mouth. I lost my temper at that point and the discussion rapidly stopped. She's still not speaking to me.

Well .....



I remember those days. I remember the days before those days, where picking crops at sixpence per bushel was a significant part of the family income. Getting paid half a quid for a full day dipping sheep, most of whom were bigger than me. The total shame of having to borrow money from friends to eat. The fiercer shame of trying to balance off how much food the kids had vs. how much I could eat, before the child benefit came in. Hanging around the local market until closing time to pick up cheap veggies. The frantic calculation of what we could afford to send to a school food drive.

But - I don't understand.

It's true. I don't. I don't understand how anyone can bear not to work, instead living off the work of others.

[ABX]

Flipping burgers is a good analogy because that type of job is a typical minimum wage job. Let's break it down.

A fast food worker at the register may deal with 1 customer every 2 minutes (time to order and fulfill).
They purchase a $5.99 value meal. Multiply this by 30 customers per hour.
The franchise may net 25% profit on this before expenses.
Round it to $6 per meal x 30/ hour = $180 sales per hour per burger flipper. But only 25% is profit so that is only $45/hour.

But you as a burger flipper aren't the only person in the supply chain.

There is the guy who cooks the fries, the guy who bakes the bread, the guy who cleans the counters, the guy who stocks the supplies- all of which say they should earn $15/hour.

Let's just reduce that $45/hour profit to be shared among 4 people even though we all know there are a lot more in the supply chain. We are just keeping round numbers.

Well, $45 / 4 = $11.25/hour.

WOW, Mr. Rich business owner can afford to pay what Obama wants $10.10/hour with $1.15 to spare.

Except we forgot about Mr. Business owner.

He can't live on $1.15/hour, especially when he puts his entire life into his business including mortgaging his home, retirement, and getting deep into debt to start his business. Why should he continue to work?

So he shuts the business down that earns him only $1.15/hour and he becomes a minimum wage worker at $10.10/hour instead. All of those burger flippers now can live on unemployment which is about 1/3rd of their salary instead.

(and let's not even get into what Obamacare costs business owner.)

[Oceander]

It's true. I don't. I don't understand how anyone can bear not to work, instead living off the work of others.

You've just described most socialists, as well as trust fund babies (and, quite frankly, many of the most pestiferous socialists are trustafarians - trust fund babies who like to play at being working class) and those few people who inherit the family fortune.

You most definitely have not described any business owners.  They do work hard - hard to create a business that will both grow and be self-sustaining.  If that business owner manages to achieve that goal, then isn't she or he entitled to enjoy the fruits of her or his hard labor?

Then there is the necessary corollary that goes with the statement that a business owner - and this time that also includes trustafarians and those who inherited the family fortune - lives off of the work of others:  if no one "lives off of the work of others" then no one has a job, and each must fend for him/herself and live by her/his own wits.  That is subsistence farming, at best.

And that, quite frankly, is one of the two necessary end results of socialism; the other being the slavery of the proletariat to the government and, more precisely, to the whim of those who run the government.

With all due respect to your wife, people who are not college freshman and are still socialists are simply stupid; they have utterly failed to actually think things through and have lost touch with reality.

[EC]

The biggest push towards communism the UK had was between 1917 and 1925. Nearly every "leader" of the movement would be what we would consider a trustafairian. Younger sons of wealthy land owners (think Downton Abbey) who took up the flag of the oppressed. Never thinking that Communism would either mean they'd have to work or be plowed under.

[Oceander]

The biggest push towards communism the UK had was between 1917 and 1925. Nearly every "leader" of the movement would be what we would consider a trustafairian. Younger sons of wealthy land owners (think Downton Abbey) who took up the flag of the oppressed. Never thinking that Communism would either mean they'd have to work or be plowed under.

what about the socialist labor movement immediately after WW2?