Author Topic: Republicans to the Rescue?  (Read 499 times)

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Offline happyg

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Republicans to the Rescue?
« on: February 04, 2014, 12:52:01 PM »

Offline massadvj

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2014, 01:12:07 PM »
Immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of how to help people who break them.

Not entirely true.  Marijuana laws also fall into this category.

I usually agree with Sowell, but on this issue I have a slight disagreement.  I doubt Sowell's mentor Milton Friedman would agree with him, either.  Friedman understood that open borders are an insurance policy against socialism and that closed borders are an attempt to preserve socialism by keeping beneficiaries out.  Therefore, we should not be discouraging open borders.

What we should be discouraging is socialism, and most of the "pathway to citizenship" proposals are objectionable on the basis that they expand the welfare state.  But an open border with Mexico, whereby guest workers can come and go freely, would benefit us so long as the guest workers were not given access to government handouts.  In other words, it's the handouts that are the problem, not the immigrants themselves.  The immigrants are simply acting in their best economic interest, which is precisely what we should all do.     
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 02:48:12 PM »
In other words, it's the handouts that are the problem, not the immigrants themselves.  The immigrants are simply acting in their best economic interest, which is precisely what we should all do. 

Exactly.........  cut off the benefits for all non-citizens. Stop the anchor baby program.  Return to a bracero work program.

Online Bigun

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 02:50:28 PM »
In other words, it's the handouts that are the problem, not the immigrants themselves.  The immigrants are simply acting in their best economic interest, which is precisely what we should all do. 

Exactly.........  cut off the benefits for all non-citizens. Stop the anchor baby program.  Return to a bracero work program.

Yep!  :beer:

Offline EC

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 04:42:28 PM »
But an open border with Mexico, whereby guest workers can come and go freely, would benefit us so long as the guest workers were not given access to government handouts.  In other words, it's the handouts that are the problem, not the immigrants themselves.  The immigrants are simply acting in their best economic interest, which is precisely what we should all do.   

Would the guest worker program work both ways? Mexico is pretty short on engineers - and there are a lot of older engineers who can't get work in the USA.
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 05:06:12 PM »
In other words, it's the handouts that are the problem, not the immigrants themselves.  The immigrants are simply acting in their best economic interest, which is precisely what we should all do. 

Exactly.........  cut off the benefits for all non-citizens. Stop the anchor baby program.  Return to a bracero work program.

We put out the red carpet for illegals offering every means of support, licenses, education, health care and protection from any kind of prosecution. They don't really need jobs. We provide everything they need. Than we say we can't round up the hoards of invaders so we have to give them amnesty. Take away all the perks and they will leave on their own. Then round up the politicians who created this disaster and hang them

Offline EC

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 05:13:37 PM »
Then round up the politicians who created this disaster and hang them

I never pegged you as a Green! Nice job on recycling and keeping the environment clean.  :tongue2:
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2014, 05:29:59 PM »
Oh yeah. Always happy to help

Offline massadvj

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2014, 06:22:51 PM »
Would the guest worker program work both ways? Mexico is pretty short on engineers - and there are a lot of older engineers who can't get work in the USA.

Whether there is reciprocity or not, our side should be open to anyone who wants to invest capital (including their personal labor) in this country.  Open borders and expanded trade are almost always preferable to trade restriction.  Countries that attempt to lock their economic advantages in usually end up shooting themselves in the foot, as has been demonstrated by the historical record.
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 06:28:02 PM »
open borders and expanded trade are two different issues. A country that wants to protect it's borders shouldn't be labeled trade restrictive

Offline EC

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2014, 06:28:41 PM »
Whether there is reciprocity or not, our side should be open to anyone who wants to invest capital (including their personal labor) in this country.  Open borders and expanded trade are almost always preferable to trade restriction.  Countries that attempt to lock their economic advantages in usually end up shooting themselves in the foot, as has been demonstrated by the historical record.

Oh, I agree with your base point. The entire country is, or at least was, testament to that. Just thinking that if it was a bilateral agreement, Mexico could kickstart it's own economy by using the experience of people who are simply too old or expensive to hire by US firms. That would also reduce the amount of illegals running the border as conditions got better in Mexico.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Republicans to the Rescue?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2014, 09:28:58 PM »
Would the guest worker program work both ways? Mexico is pretty short on engineers - and there are a lot of older engineers who can't get work in the USA.

That's a nonsensical statement because this is a matter of internal US policy, not a matter of international negotiation between the US and Mexico.  I'm sure that if Congress could it would unilaterally make it reciprocal; but they can't so they'll have to decide on the immigration policy that makes the most sense for the US - and that includes taking into account the costs of the sort of draconian solutions so many people so glibly favor.

That being said, Mexican immigration policy seems to work on a points system, and those who rack up enough points - and being a professional, like an engineer, racks up a lot of points - can get a visa to work in Mexico, at least on a temporary basis for up to 4 years.  If one is sufficiently concerned about those older American engineers, then perhaps one should be assisting them in applying for a visa to work in Mexico?


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