Author Topic: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.  (Read 933 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Offline olde north church

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2014, 01:31:08 PM »
The stock drops of late '07 through early '09 was the big boys chasing the little ones off the playground.  Once the hunt and peckers were gone, the water was fine and their was money to be made.
The blue hairs with butter and egg money and the bowling alley boys in Indiannapolis were small fry with big impact.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2014, 09:22:21 PM »
Interesting discussion about this on Real News.   They pointed out when we gave "permanent" trade status to China to manufacture everything the die was cast. They pointed out in the past we would never give "permanent" status and all trade agreements were reassessed from the POV of whether they were harming our economy.   Some used the excuse the cheaper goods would be good for the middle class while ignoring the middle class can't afford squat when all their jobs are gone.. but worse is our money going to China is being used by China to build up a huge military presence around the world...... we have shot ourselves in the foot with one fell swoop -  killing the middle class and giving our enemies the money to destroy us.

Offline massadvj

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 09:36:00 PM »
The shrinking middle class has been with us since the late 1980's.  It is exacerbated by the socialistic policies of late, but its root cause is not political.  The root cause is globalization and technology.  Those who have understood and embraced globalization and technology have been upwardly mobile, and those who have not have been downwardly mobile.  Globalization and technology are big enough tides to raise all boats, but government has to get out of the way for that to happen. 
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2014, 10:05:47 PM »
The shrinking middle class has been with us since the late 1980's.  It is exacerbated by the socialistic policies of late, but its root cause is not political.  The root cause is globalization and technology.  Those who have understood and embraced globalization and technology have been upwardly mobile, and those who have not have been downwardly mobile.  Globalization and technology are big enough tides to raise all boats, but government has to get out of the way for that to happen.


But government is making it worse.  At the very least instead of giving 99 weeks unemployment cart-blanc it should come with strings  - aka re-education and proof you are trying to get reeducated... drop out of school the benefits stop... flunk out  - the benefits stop.   

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2014, 11:54:17 PM »
The problem is, the growing difference in income - I hate the term "income inequality" because it implies a very false assumption: that everyone should have the same amount of income - is the result of government interference.

Offline olde north church

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 07:01:31 AM »
The problem is, the growing difference in income - I hate the term "income inequality" because it implies a very false assumption: that everyone should have the same amount of income - is the result of government interference.

Similar to the term "underprivileged".  It would indicate that people who drag their ass out of bed every morning and take a risk, whether putting capital or shoulder to wheel, nose to grindstone  injuries have some level of privelege.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 12:35:39 PM »
Similar to the term "underprivileged".  It would indicate that people who drag their ass out of bed every morning and take a risk, whether putting capital or shoulder to wheel, nose to grindstone  injuries have some level of privelege.

very true; I hadn't thought of that.  It also dovetails quite nicely with the basic democrat/liberal view of wealth - that those who have it got it solely because of the government and therefore the government can willy-nilly strip them of their wealth because it really isn't theirs.  In other words, someone with some wealth has that wealth solely as a privilege granted him/her by the government, and not because of anything that individual might have done.

Offline olde north church

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 01:16:13 PM »
very true; I hadn't thought of that.  It also dovetails quite nicely with the basic democrat/liberal view of wealth - that those who have it got it solely because of the government and therefore the government can willy-nilly strip them of their wealth because it really isn't theirs.  In other words, someone with some wealth has that wealth solely as a privilege granted him/her by the government, and not because of anything that individual might have done.

I remember my profession from "The Psychology of Death and Dying" was twaddling about regarding passing on of weatlth from generation to generation.  My first thought, boy these people who claim to care nothing about wealth sure as f*ck give a damn about how to move it.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 01:43:26 PM »
I remember my profession from "The Psychology of Death and Dying" was twaddling about regarding passing on of weatlth from generation to generation.  My first thought, boy these people who claim to care nothing about wealth sure as f*ck give a damn about how to move it.

Indeed.  Anecdotally, I found it rather telling that the liberal family that owns the controlling stock of the NYT engaged in some patently obvious tax planning - planning that necessitated the use of aggressive estimates of FMV and discounts for lack of marketability - a few years ago with the obvious intent of preserving as much as possible to pass on to the younger generation.  All while one of the stalking horses of liberals is the unfairness of inherited wealth.

Offline LambChop

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 02:04:32 PM »

But government is making it worse.  At the very least instead of giving 99 weeks unemployment cart-blanc it should come with strings  - aka re-education and proof you are trying to get reeducated... drop out of school the benefits stop... flunk out  - the benefits stop.

 :amen:

Some of the most successful drivers I hired came from the state's unemployment office.  These were mature men who found themselves out of a job and no prospects on the horizon.  The state paid for their truck driving school and worked with them for placement once they got their CDL.

They found a new career path, the state saved months (or years even) in benefits paid.  win-win

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2014, 05:34:28 PM »
:amen:

Some of the most successful drivers I hired came from the state's unemployment office.  These were mature men who found themselves out of a job and no prospects on the horizon.  The state paid for their truck driving school and worked with them for placement once they got their CDL.

They found a new career path, the state saved months (or years even) in benefits paid.  win-win

I have absolutely no problem with funding a person while they go to school to learn a new trade. What I take issue with are the people who like to stand on street corners, shoot the breeze, drink, smoke, get tattoos, drive expensive cars and earn money under the table while we send them food stamps, pay for section-8 housing, aid for dependent children, and welfare for mommy and daddy and all the while they are doing nothing to get off the dole and make something of their life. 

Offline EC

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2014, 05:45:47 PM »
I have absolutely no problem with funding a person while they go to school to learn a new trade. What I take issue with are the people who like to stand on street corners, shoot the breeze, drink, smoke, get tattoos, drive expensive cars and earn money under the table while we send them food stamps, pay for section-8 housing, aid for dependent children, and welfare for mommy and daddy and all the while they are doing nothing to get off the dole and make something of their life.

Exactly the same - with one small proviso (different country, different rules).

That bolded bit? If we'd tried to reject it, Child Services would have been on our doorstep faster than you can say Jack Robinson. Neither of us ever wanted to be on the Government teat. We have never taken anything - not income support, not unemployment, not disability. Heck - I don't even take my forces pension yet. But refusing child benefit? - you get no knock visits and lose your kids.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2014, 05:50:26 PM »
Then that is the difference between the UK and America. Frankly don't have kids until you can afford to support them.

Offline EC

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2014, 05:55:24 PM »
Then that is the difference between the UK and America. Frankly don't have kids until you can afford to support them.

I don't like it one bit. With our youngest, we get visits roughly once a week (we are a little old to be new parents)! But - if you wait til you can afford to have kids, you will wait forever. You make yourself afford them! :laugh:

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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2014, 06:01:09 PM »
I don't like it one bit. With our youngest, we get visits roughly once a week (we are a little old to be new parents)! But - if you wait til you can afford to have kids, you will wait forever. You make yourself afford them! :laugh:

There is no way in Hell I'd put up with weekly visits from anyone from the Guv.

Offline Oceander

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2014, 06:20:27 PM »
like the proverbial frog in the slowly-heated pot of water, people will put up with a lot more than they imagine themselves putting up with if the new impositions are smoothly put into place a few individuals at a time.

Offline EC

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2014, 06:26:16 PM »
There is no way in Hell I'd put up with weekly visits from anyone from the Guv.

You'll wind up with it, the way you are heading with Obamacare.

You know the thing about "Your kids belong to us all?" That wasn't hyperbole. That is socialist policy.

We have never considered our kids as "ours." We were and are simply lucky enough to have them for a time before they head out on their own. So it is immensely insulting to have some social worker drop by once a week or so to check.

When Mark was little, we refused entry. Nothing sinister, the water pipe main valve into the house had decided enough was enough and I was doing a tricky bit of plumbing by candle light. You don't want electricity flowing while there is an inch of water on the floor! She came back 20 minutes later with 2 police officers.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2014, 06:28:45 PM »
You accept it because you live in a socialist country. I do not and will not accept it.

Offline EC

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2014, 06:35:05 PM »
You accept it because you live in a socialist country. I do not and will not accept it.

Then learn from us. Please?

What NOT to do is a more valuable example sometimes.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 06:35:53 PM by EC »
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2014, 06:37:56 PM »
Then learn from us. Please?

Why do you think I'm fighting so hard against OCare, and all the other liberal crap coming from both parties.  My ancestors came here in the 1600's and fought in the Revolution, the war between the states, WWI and WWII, my husband was in the military in the run up to Vietnam....... I think what is wrong with this country is too few think they should serve and don't... I think they would fight a lot harder to keep their country if they had instead of being so damned caviler about just giving it away to the illegals, for example.

Offline EC

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Re: The Middle Class Is Steadily Eroding. Just Ask the Business World.
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2014, 06:55:14 PM »
Keep fighting.

I love you Rap. But I need hit bed. Carry on tomorrow?
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