Author Topic: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones  (Read 308 times)

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Offline xfreeper

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The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« on: February 01, 2014, 11:23:48 AM »
The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones

Tuesday night, President Obama vowed to “help stop more tragedies from visiting innocent Americans in our movie theaters and our shopping malls, or schools like Sandy Hook.”

But before he continues pushing his typical gun-control agenda, he should consider what law enforcement in Europe and the United States advise. It might surprise him.

In November, Interpol’s secretary general, Ron Noble, noted there are two ways to protect people from such mass shootings: “One is to say we want an armed citizenry; you can see the reason for that. Another is to say the enclaves [should be] so secure that in order to get into the soft target you’re going to have to pass through extraordinary security.”

Noble sees a real problem: “How do you protect soft targets? That’s really the challenge. You can’t have armed police forces everywhere.”

“It makes citizens question their views on gun control,” he noted. “You have to ask yourself, ‘Is an armed citizenry more necessary now than it was in the past, with an evolving threat of terrorism?’”

His comments were made right after the terrorist attack at the Westgate Mall in Nairobi, Kenya, where 68 people were killed. Kenya bans both open and concealed carrying of firearms by civilians. Yet, obviously, those bans didn’t stop the terrorists.

The vast majority of mass shootings in the U.S. have been extensively planned beforehand — often many months or even years in advance, allowing the perpetrators to find unprotected targets and obtain weapons. Take Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook Elementary School killer, who spent over two years studying everything about previous mass shootings: the weapons used, the number of people killed, and even how much media coverage each shooting received. Police described the 7-by-4-foot spreadsheet as sickeningly thorough, even likening his careful study to a doctoral dissertation.

James Holmes, the Aurora, Colo., killer, was another careful planner. He started buying items two and a half months in advance. He visited neighboring theaters, and bought his ticket almost two weeks before his attack. To help prepare, he photographed the layout of the theater where he’d commit his heinous crimes.

Ironically, President Obama mentioned movie theaters and malls on Tuesday. Holmes appears to have carefully selected the theater he did: Seven theaters within a 20-minute drive of his apartment were showing the premier of The Dark Knight Returns. He chose the only one posting signs banning concealed guns — not the theater closest to his apartment or the one prominently advertising the largest auditoriums in Colorado.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/370014/cruelty-gun-free-zones-john-r-lott-jr#!

Offline xfreeper

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Re: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 11:26:01 AM »
The author may be missing the point that those who reign over us are more concerned with protecting themselves (against us) than they are with our ability to protect ourselves against dangerous felons

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Re: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 12:08:14 PM »
The author may be missing the point that those who reign over us are more concerned with protecting themselves (against us) than they are with our ability to protect ourselves against dangerous felons

Two sides to the coin. (And don't say, shut up you Brit, you don't know of what you speak. I've logged more time with more weapons than most.  :laugh: )

Self defence - good. It is not just an inalienable right, it is a duty to protect your family at all times and at all costs. A gun or two at home facilitates that. It's your home ground, you know where everyone is and you've logged the range time to be able to shoot straight and tight and reload in the dark. Your kids know gun safety rules and drills.

General defence - much trickier. While it is undeniable that gun crime goes down when gun ownership goes up, the pesky problem of innocent bystanders gets in the way. You ain't a cop, and don't have their general protections for mistakes.
Take Aurora, for example. Shooting in a dark theater. Unless you have had serious training, you would likely make the problem worse by pulling your piece and trying to get the shooter. Yes, I know the mere presence of a gun has been known to encourage the shooter to take their own life, but you can't rely on that.
Easy fix though - if you want a CCW, you don't just show range proficiency. You take an advanced tac course, prior to getting your CCW. It won't solve the "Will you shoot" problem, but it will partially solve the "Will you shoot the right person" problem.



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Offline xfreeper

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Re: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 12:37:14 PM »
I don’t think I know anyone who regularly carries a firearm that is not proficient in the use and I know very few that have not had some serious tactical training. Anyone who shoots another human, no matter what the circumstances, is in for some trouble. Anyone who injures or kills an innocent bystander under any circumstances is in for very major trouble and I think this is commonly understood by people who carry. Train and respond accordingly. Under the scenario you described re the theater, again, I don’t know many people who carry that are going to take a shot unless they are reasonably certain about what they will hit or not hit. Your suggestion that the situation would result in something even worse I think is incorrect and resembles the old ‘there will be blood in the streets’ argument against ccw.

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Re: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 12:44:10 PM »
I don’t think I know anyone who regularly carries a firearm that is not proficient in the use and I know very few that have not had some serious tactical training. Anyone who shoots another human, no matter what the circumstances, is in for some trouble. Anyone who injures or kills an innocent bystander under any circumstances is in for very major trouble and I think this is commonly understood by people who carry. Train and respond accordingly. Under the scenario you described re the theater, again, I don’t know many people who carry that are going to take a shot unless they are reasonably certain about what they will hit or not hit. Your suggestion that the situation would result in something even worse I think is incorrect and resembles the old ‘there will be blood in the streets’ argument against ccw.

Most people train. Of course they do! A gun is a tool like any other, and you need practice to use it right. Besides - it's fun!  :laugh:

Not everyone does, though. As I said on another thread - you have to go through drivers ed to drive a car. Shooters ed should be equally as ubiquitous and taught in schools.
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 01:24:02 PM »
I completely agree that shooting and firearm safety should be taught in schools but...should be voluntary. Driving is a privilege. RKBA is a right. The Brit started to show just a little bit there   8888forgot

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Re: The Cruelty of Gun-Free Zones
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2014, 01:48:35 PM »
I completely agree that shooting and firearm safety should be taught in schools but...should be voluntary. Driving is a privilege. RKBA is a right. The Brit started to show just a little bit there   8888forgot

 :silly:

Caught me. And yeah, a little. It's going to happen.  :laugh:

Though I can make the case for obligatory. Simply because it is a right, it should be taught to all. At the moment, if you want to exercise your right to bear arms, it's all on you to practice, take the safety classes, take tac classes (as we discussed above). If it is taught in schools, there is no doubt that it is a RIGHT. Also, as a side, it may reduce accidental gun deaths and that fear of guns a lot of people (Libs mainly) seem to have.
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