Author Topic: Conservative website shuttered after libel ruling (Free Dominion- Canada)  (Read 2579 times)

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Offline AbaraXas

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OTTAWA — The online political forum, Free Dominion, has shut down after a wholesale defeat in a libel case brought by Ottawa human rights lawyer Richard Warman.

A jury concluded that Warman was maliciously defamed by four commentators on Free Dominion, a website that bills itself as “the voice of principled conservatism.”

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Conservative+website+shuttered+after+libel+ruling/9441201/story.html




Free Dominion was one of the big players. They often called themselves FR's sister site.

Никогда не обманывайте себя мыслью, что вы «влияете» или вносите изменения в Интернет. Это эфемерное удовольствие.

Offline AbaraXas

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FD's website:
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=active_topics

As of today, January 23, 2014, and after 13 years online, Free Dominion is closing its doors to the public. We have been successfully censored.



Today, Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert Smith issued an order in the Richard Warman vs Mark and Connie Fournier and John Does defamation case heard September, 2013. In addition to ordering that we must pay Warman $127,000, Justice Smith issued an injunction against us ordering we that never publish, or allow to be published, anything negative about Richard Warman. This means we are barred for life from ever operating a public forum or a blog (even about cookie recipes) where the public can comment. If we do so, any one of Warman’s handful of supporters could, and probably would, use a common proxy server to avoid being traced, plant a negative comment about Warman on our site, and we would both be charged with contempt of court. If that happened --unlike in the Ottawa courtroom where we were blocked at every turn from presenting a defense-- we actually would have no defense. We would both go to jail. This life sentence was imposed for our terrible crimes of voicing our honestly held beliefs and allowing others to do the same. Defamation law, in its current state, is entirely inadequate and counterproductive when applied to the internet. Now it is being used as a tool of censorship. Effectively!

We are assessing our options.

In faith,
Mark and Connie Fournier

"If it takes force to impose your ideas on your fellow man, there is something wrong with your ideas. If you are willing to use force to impose your ideas on your fellow man, there is something wrong with you." - Mark Fournier
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 10:36:23 AM by AbaraXas »
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Offline Gazoo

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Wow, this is so sad and shocking, There really is a cultural war and the US President is the bully pulpit.
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline AbaraXas

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One of the founders, Connie made the following comment on FR. This is very disturbing.

...we will literally go to prison for contempt of court if we repeat the actual comments.

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Offline Gazoo

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« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 11:12:19 AM by Gazoo »
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline AbaraXas

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This is another disturbing part of the ruling.

Quote
Justice Smith also found the defendants had acted unreasonably by refusing to accept Warman’s offer to settle the case for $5,000 each.

This is a politically sponsored mafia shake-down.
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Offline alicewonders

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It wouldn't take much more of the progressive agenda here in the US to see the same thing happen here.  We're treading on slippery ground.
Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Charlespg

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don't know much about this case ,but I'm beginning to think the only answer is to permanently disappear
these people like Warman...you cant exercise power or censor free speech  when your dead
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 01:22:09 PM by Charlespg »
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Very worried now.

It's another chip at Net Neutrality.
Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Offline Charlespg

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Very worried now.

It's another chip at Net Neutrality.
its coming  ..people like warman are a threat to your life as well as liberty ..we've all heard the  history stories of people being sent to the gulag for criticizing  the soviet leadership leftest Thugs like Richard Warman would happy send you there or have you killed   ..when governments start   threating people with jail for  criticizing politicians/leaders  or groups like the Canadian Human Rights  police ...its time to think about rebellion 
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Offline Charlespg

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Offline Chieftain

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don't know much about this case ,but I'm beginning to think the only answer is to permanently disappear
these people like Warman...you cant exercise power or censor free speech  when your dead

Just remember, coyotes eat the bones too.


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its coming  ..people like warman are a threat to your life as well as liberty ..we've all heard the  history stories of people being sent to the gulag for criticizing  the soviet leadership leftest Thugs like Richard Warman would happy send you there or have you killed   ..when governments start   threating people with jail for  criticizing politicians/leaders  or groups like the Canadian Human Rights  police ...its time to think about rebellion

Rebellion. It's a nasty word.

It's a nasty thing, also. Does not mean it will not be required.

Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Offline AbaraXas

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Any sort of Rebellion (or Revolution or CWII depending on who you talk to) will accomplish nothing if we don't change the pop culture mentality in this country and elsewhere. Everything we have is a product of voter demand.  People more and more are no longer self-reliant. They are voting for whatever Santa will give them. They want someone from the government who is here to help.  Even our side has succumb to this. We look for someone from the government to solve our problems too.

Rebellion is not the answer as the people will just go back to demanding the same old stuff.

Education and marketing (a radical improvement) are what is needed. Door by door, neighborhood by neighborhood, school by school, city by city, state by state. Bottom up.

The rebellion or revolution we need is of the mind and spirit.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 05:06:39 PM by AbaraXas »
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Offline Charlespg

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Rebellion. It's a nasty word.

It's a nasty thing, also. Does not mean it will not be required.
I sure hope not.But if I come across as a reactionary its because history has taught me what these
kinds of people are capable of
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I sure hope not.But if I come across as a reactionary its because history has taught me what these
kinds of people are capable of

You don't come across as reactionary. You have simply had enough. You are pissed off. You vent, to like minded people.

It is a sign of the times when you have to be careful what you say in a public forum. That is concerning on many levels.
Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

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Offline Chieftain

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Any sort of Rebellion (or Revolution or CWII depending on who you talk to) will accomplish nothing if we don't change the pop culture mentality in this country and elsewhere. Everything we have is a product of voter demand.  People more and more are no longer self-reliant. They are voting for whatever Santa will give them. They want someone from the government who is here to help.  Even our side has succumb to this. We look for someone from the government to solve our problems too.

Rebellion is not the answer as the people will just go back to demanding the same old stuff.

Education and marketing (a radical improvement) are what is needed. Door by door, neighborhood by neighborhood, school by school, city by city, state by state. Bottom up.

The rebellion or revolution we need is of the mind and spirit.

yah....sounds great but people will not engage until things become personally uncomfortable for them, and that usually involves government repression of some sort.  The revolution in Egypt started over government increases in simple consumer goods like cooking oil, which by itself is insignificant but piled on top of everything else eventually you find the breaking point.

Wasn't it Jefferson who claimed the Tree of Liberty must be periodically watered with the blood of patriots??  The only way to get back to some resemblance of a Constitutional Republic as it was intended to be, will involve violence and plenty of bloodshed.  We as a people have let things slide too far, and we are well past the point of no return with the Government we have. 

On Edit:  Lets not lose sight of the fact that Free Dominion is located in Canuckistan, and if you choose to live and work there, then you choose to follow the rules there. 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 05:42:45 PM by Chieftain »

Offline Charlespg

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yah....sounds great but people will not engage until things become personally uncomfortable for them, and that usually involves government repression of some sort.  The revolution in Egypt started over government increases in simple consumer goods like cooking oil, which by itself is insignificant but piled on top of everything else eventually you find the breaking point.

Wasn't it Jefferson who claimed the Tree of Liberty must be periodically watered with the blood of patriots??  The only way to get back to some resemblance of a Constitutional Republic as it was intended to be, will involve violence and plenty of bloodshed.  We as a people have let things slide too far, and we are well past the point of no return with the Government we have. 

On Edit:  Lets not lose sight of the fact that Free Dominion is located in Canuckistan, and if you choose to live and work there, then you choose to follow the rules there.
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/tree-liberty-quotation

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               The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.
 
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I really detest that quote.

Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Wow, this is so sad and shocking, There really is a cultural war and the US President is the bully pulpit.

Except the shutter website is not in the US, doesn't pertain to our President, or to his actions.

And Canada does NOT have the same Free Speech Constitutional protections that we have in the US, however imperfect they may sometimes appear to be.

I remember about 15 years ago on TOS when I observed posters saying the most outrageous things, about an ordinary citizen who wound up as a witness in a murder trial.

I tried to warn that it could pose a liability problem for the website and owner, but the red-meat folks there were on me like I was to be devoured. I wound up banned, for warning the owner about liability for speech about a private citizen, Slander, libel, etc.

People note the lack of civility from youths, and media figures, but rarely consider the civility on these forums.

Offline Charlespg

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Except the shutter website is not in the US, doesn't pertain to our President, or to his actions.

And Canada does NOT have the same Free Speech Constitutional protections that we have in the US, however imperfect they may sometimes appear to be.

I remember about 15 years ago on TOS when I observed posters saying the most outrageous things, about an ordinary citizen who wound up as a witness in a murder trial.

I tried to warn that it could pose a liability problem for the website and owner, but the red-meat folks there were on me like I was to be devoured. I wound up banned, for warning the owner about liability for speech about a private citizen, Slander, libel, etc.

People note the lack of civility from youths, and media figures, but rarely consider the civility on these forums.
  I don't think slander was the issue here. If  I remember right this guy warman went after people for negative comments about Islam  as well as gays,gay marriage ,whatever he decided was non pc
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 07:42:34 PM by Charlespg »
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Offline Rapunzel

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Canada doesn't give their citizens first amendment protections. Remember one of the main reasons Mark Steyn isn't living in Canada is they sued him for speaking out.  His trial was in 2008.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-kafkaesque-show-trial-of-mark-steyn/
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Offline kevindavis

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We must be careful if there are calls to regulate the Internet for the Children..
GOP House members came to Paul Ryan to be Speaker. He didn't come to them. And he was everybody's conservative darling back in 2012. So unless 1 of the remaining 240 wants to step up & do a better job in budgeting & negotiations & herding the party cats, then everybody please STFU. You go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want but don't have.

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It wouldn't take much more of the progressive agenda here in the US to see the same thing happen here.  We're treading on slippery ground.

That area is, in fact, one area where I make common cause with those who see nothing but bad in Islam - there has been constant pressure to "liberalize" (pun intended) the defamation laws in this country so that defamation of Islam, or its mangy cur of a prophet (I'm going to say it while I still can, not because I necessarily believe it), is actionable and the defamer subject to damages.  To date that pressure has been resisted - unlike much of the rest of the world, the US pretty much shut down defamation as a serious tort many decades ago.  Public figures almost never win a defamation suit - and that includes individuals who interject themselves into public debates, and "public" doesn't have to be the entire public at large, but can include a large body of individuals who have a common interest, such as a large national association.  Mr. Warman would have almost certainly be treated as a public figure and would therefore have had to show that these two people acted with the intent to cause harm, or with reckless disregard for the truth; in other words, Warman would have lost.

And he would have lost big because when someone sues for defamation (at least in the US) almost their entire life becomes relevant to the issues and a well-represented defendant can usually use the suit as a means of airing almost all of the plaintiff's dirty laundry.

Honestly, these two should expatriate from Canada, drop their Canadian citizenship and take up citizenship elsewhere, someplace where their freedom to speak will be respected; they can then, if they wish, continue to run an open forum about Canadian politics with little risk of further liability, and certainly without risk of prison.  I would have suggested they move to the US, and 5 years ago that would have been good advice; now, I'd advise them to wait until after the 2016 elections, or at the very least until after the 2014 elections.

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  I don't think slander was the issue here. If  I remember right this guy warman went after people for negative comments about Islam  as well as gays,gay marriage ,whatever he decided was non pc

Defamation (e.g., slander) was the issue here.  Warman has used the Canadian human rights laws as a sword to punish his political enemies, and had garnered substantial political criticism for it; it was that criticism he sued over.


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