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Offline Rapunzel

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« on: January 09, 2014, 04:58:33 PM »

Offline rangerrebew

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 05:05:30 PM »
Personally, it seems like a good way to test to see who wants to live in America and abide by America's rules.  If waiting to vote is such a big problem for someone, then they really aren't interested in a future here, only in the benefits.
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
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Offline katzenjammer

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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 05:12:01 PM »
All of this crap of changing our laws (and turning a blind eye toward enforcement) from laws that helped build this country's strength by fostering the well planned immigration of people that would eagerly assimilate into our culture and contribute far more than they ever looked to take, to laws that tear apart this country's foundation by encouraging the mass importation of unskilled, illiterates* that are encouraged to resist assimilation, started a long time ago.  Most of it found its roots during the days of the so-called Great Society; what we are seeing foisted upon us now (from virtually all corners) is the end game of the particular flavor of a means to further erode the economy, the society and culture, and ultimately the sovereignty of the Nation.  Expect no less from our Ruling Class...


* ETA: those at the lower levels aren't the only problem, the flood of low wage workers into the STEM environment is equally destructive to Americans.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 05:37:05 PM by katzenjammer »

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 05:55:49 PM »
All of this crap of changing our laws (and turning a blind eye toward enforcement) from laws that helped build this country's strength by fostering the well planned immigration of people that would eagerly assimilate into our culture and contribute far more than they ever looked to take, to laws that tear apart this country's foundation by encouraging the mass importation of unskilled, illiterates* that are encouraged to resist assimilation, started a long time ago.  Most of it found its roots during the days of the so-called Great Society; what we are seeing foisted upon us now (from virtually all corners) is the end game of the particular flavor of a means to further erode the economy, the society and culture, and ultimately the sovereignty of the Nation.  Expect no less from our Ruling Class...


* ETA: those at the lower levels aren't the only problem, the flood of low wage workers into the STEM environment is equally destructive to Americans.

Baloney.  The US has had guest worker programs before - e.g., the Bracero program from the 40s to the 60s - that only brought in unskilled workers who not only didn't assimilate, they weren't allowed to assimilate, with spelling the end of The Republic.

And I really don't see how rewarding initiative, hard work, and persistence is so utterly at odds with what this country is supposed to be about.  Or did I somehow misread that inscription on the Statue of Liberty, what was it... oh, yeah:
Quote
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 05:58:25 PM »
I favor a Bracero program.  In fact there is a few areas in Colorado where the farms utilize a verstion of Bracero each summer.  The ranch owners are very diligent about tracking who they hire and the people they hire are very happy to come here and work in the summer and return to Mexico (as per agreement) in the off-season. 

Offline Oceander

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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 06:09:52 PM »
I favor a Bracero program.  In fact there is a few areas in Colorado where the farms utilize a verstion of Bracero each summer.  The ranch owners are very diligent about tracking who they hire and the people they hire are very happy to come here and work in the summer and return to Mexico (as per agreement) in the off-season. 

So isn't the simplest solution to this mess to simply grant an "amnesty" that gives current illegal aliens bracero status?  And isn't the simplest solution to the risk of aliens entering the US illegally in the future a broader bracero program?  And if so, then we should remove most of the handicaps and limitations of the original bracero programs that ended up turning the bracero workers themselves into indentured servants because most of the labor unrest from bracero workers in the 40s and up to the 60s came from protests against those sorts of restrictions and limitations.

In other words, we should have a broad-based guest worker program that allows anyone who isn't a felon or on the run, or a security risk, to enter the country and work, but without granting immigrant status that would of necessity lead to greencard or citizenship, and we should retroactively grant guest worker status to every current illegal alien who (a) turns him or her self in, and (b) does not have a criminal record involving violent crimes.

Finally, and even for current illegals, there must be some way that someone with enough persistence, patience, and endurance can reach the goal of either greencard status or full citizenship.  I'm not saying that this should be granted on equal terms to current illegals - make the waiting period 10 years instead of 5, for example - but I am saying that attempting to create a permanent underclass of people who simply cannot ever apply to become a US citizen simply because they started off as a guest worker is not only unfair and un-American, it's unworkable.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 09:26:52 PM »
So isn't the simplest solution to this mess to simply grant an "amnesty" that gives current illegal aliens bracero status?

No, that isn't how it works. It is the antithesis of the Bracero program.   They are only here to work on a work visa and the person they are working for is responsible for them being here AND returning to Mexico when the work season is over.

 Very few of the current illegals are working the fields, many came here and are laying tile, doing construction and other jobs and have no intention of ever returning to Mexico.  They have taken jobs that normally paid a lot of American's middle-class wages.  Most of the local tile people went out of work here because the illegals came in during the building boom and because they were working for cash under the table and undercut all the legitimate contractors, eventually bankrupting them.. this included Americans who were more than willing to work hard, lay tile., dry wallm, roofing, build walls, put in pools, etc., in this heat, but the American workers were on the clock (so to speak) didn't work for tax-free cash and paid local, state and federal taxes and, of course, they were paid more... some of the contractors who went bankrupt were paying for their employees medical benefits, cell phones, work vehicles and had overhead.... they could not compete against the illegals. 

When you live in a small town you see the effect of illegals coming and it is not pretty.  Cut off their welfare benefits.  Come here to work on a strict work visa and then return to Mexico.  Allow people to immigrate into the USA who have an education in a career that is needed in this country - it can be from Mexico or Timbucktwo...... if we don't gain control we are going to be like France, the UK, the Netherlands are with Muslim immigrants who came uneducated and are a financial drain on those societies.
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