Author Topic: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier  (Read 832 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SPQR

  • Guest

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 12:38:58 AM »
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:49:12 AM by SPQR »

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 12:44:14 AM »



This is what the ship looks like
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:45:17 AM by SPQR »

Offline AbaraXas

  • ?? ??????? ?????
  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,216
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 12:48:58 AM »
Her deck appears to short for modern fighters outside V/STOLs like Harriers.
I think it is fine time we go back to our 70 year old surrender treaty with Japan and realize it is both out of date and she has full rights of defense in this modern world.

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 12:50:08 AM »
Her deck appears to short for modern fighters outside V/STOLs like Harriers.


The JSF(F-35B) has vertical take off capability.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:56:31 AM by SPQR »

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 01:01:27 AM »
In Fact,  The F-35 and  MV-22 Osprey is on their shopping list. Both planes would be perfect for that "aircraft carrier". As long as Japan keeps Article 9 in mind and we have a presence in Okinawa is should be all right with the USA

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2013/12/18/ospreys-and-f-35s-on-japans-240b-shopping-list/
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 01:08:28 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 02:40:10 AM »
Of course it is not an aircraft carrier. It is merely a floating resupply and repair field for forward based aircraft.

Don't forget, there are plenty of mothballed Harriers available for sale until the Ospreys and the F-35's come in.

Should the USA get involved in anything in the area, having an extra landing field would be useful.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2014, 03:01:20 AM »
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 03:12:05 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 03:11:50 AM »
I do not think that they want Harriers in mind. They want their F-35Bs. Where does it say that its a repair field in the article. I would like you to point that out to me.

I was teasing slightly. They'll come up with some reasoning along those lines. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It's a carrier, alright, but they can't call it one, due to the treaty, so of course they have to deny it. Carriers are purely offensive weapons.

It's similar to the sophistry used by the Germans when they built the Bismark and the Scharnhorst. Both were technically classed as pocket battleships, as by treaty those were the largest warships they were permitted. The Germans must have pretty big pockets.

And - Good Morning! Nice crop of posts today.  :beer:
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 03:14:20 AM »
I was teasing slightly. They'll come up with some reasoning along those lines. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It's a carrier, alright, but they can't call it one, due to the treaty, so of course they have to deny it. Carriers are purely offensive weapons.

It's similar to the sophistry used by the Germans when they built the Bismark and the Scharnhorst. Both were technically classed as pocket battleships, as by treaty those were the largest warships they were permitted. The Germans must have pretty big pockets.

And - Good Morning! Nice crop of posts today.  :beer:

Thanks for the compliment.:) As long as they acknowledge Article 9 of their constitution and maintaining that Okinawa is a permanent base for U.S. troops its fine me. If they use it against the Chinese or North Koreans its also fine with me. That is what I think that this "carrier" was built for .Just in case the North Koreans and Chinese begin to "overstep" their bounds.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 03:17:50 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 03:31:04 AM »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 05:48:07 AM »
I would add one small observation.

Izumo has a few meanings, and the Japanese are big on symbolism.

And, of course, it is also the name of an airport ....

That is all you need. Symbolism over substance. Something to show that they are not going to trampled over by North Korea or China. In  Japanese History was one of the regions of ancient Japan where major political powers arose.In Japanese mythology, the entrance to Yomi (Hell, land of the dead) was located within the province, and was sealed by the god Izanagi by placing a large boulder over the entrance.The myths set in Izumo, including the story of the deity, Susanowo, and his battle with Yamatano Orochi, or the eight-headed dragon-like serpent, were written in the ancient Chronicles, the Kojiki and the Nihon shoki. The Izumo fudoki contain more local myths such as the story of Kunibiki, which tells how the lands of Izumo created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo_Province

http://www.izm.ed.jp/english/shinwa.html
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 06:02:23 AM by SPQR »

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 06:06:38 AM »
That is all you need. Symbolism over substance. Something to show that they are not going to trampled over by North Korea or China. In  Japanese History was one of the regions of ancient Japan where major political powers arose.In Japanese mythology, the entrance to Yomi (Hell, land of the dead) was located within the province, and was sealed by the god Izanagi by placing a large boulder over the entrance.The myths set in Izumo, including the story of the deity, Susanowo, and his battle with Yamatano Orochi, or the eight-headed dragon-like serpent, were written in the ancient Chronicles, the Kojiki and the Nihon shoki. The Izumo fudoki contain more local myths such as the story of Kunibiki, which tells how the lands of Izumo created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo_Province

http://www.izm.ed.jp/english/shinwa.html

Yes, It has an airport

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 06:07:31 AM »
Yep. Dealing with the Japanese (not that it happens too often) always gives me a headache. They do everything symbolically. It seems to be totally automatic, like we'll drop pop culture and history references into jokes over a beer or two.

One interesting point you just raised: Susanoo no mikoto is strongly associated with Korea.

Back on track, I've been looking for but finding little on how the Izumo has been working up. As a support ship with escorts - like it should be if the official description is right? Or as the core of a battle group? If it is the second, she is going to be a carrier, simple as that.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

SPQR

  • Guest
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 06:14:45 AM »

One interesting point you just raised: Susanoo no mikoto is strongly associated with Korea.


You are forgetting your history. Japan conquered Korea from 1910-1945. The Chosin Resevoir is a Japanese name.The name Chosin is the Japanese pronunciation of the Korean place. I believe the Cold War series put out by CNN of DVD mentions this, Attempts were made to introduce the modern household registration system. The Korean cast system was lost by this attempt. In 1911 a proclamation, "Matter Concerning the Changing of Korean Names" was issued barring ethnic Koreans from taking Japanese names and to retroactively revert the names of Koreans that had already registered under Japanese names back to the original Korean ones.By 1939, however this position was reversed and Japan's focus had shifted towards colonial assimilation of the Korean people, and Imperial Decree 19 on Korean Civil Affairs went into effect, whereby ethnic Koreans were forced to surrender their Korean family name and adopt Japanese surnames.Like any language, there are times that words cross national borders.

Quote
Back on track, I've been looking for but finding little on how the Izumo has been working up. As a support ship with escorts - like it should be if the official description is right? Or as the core of a battle group? If it is the second, she is going to be a carrier, simple as that

That would be up to the Japanese Naval authorities,
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 06:38:04 AM by SPQR »

Offline PzLdr

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,421
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 11:42:01 AM »



This is what the ship looks like

Banzai!
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Offline PzLdr

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,421
Re: Despite appearances, Japan insists Izumo is not an aircraft carrier
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 11:48:16 AM »
I was teasing slightly. They'll come up with some reasoning along those lines. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It's a carrier, alright, but they can't call it one, due to the treaty, so of course they have to deny it. Carriers are purely offensive weapons.

It's similar to the sophistry used by the Germans when they built the Bismark and the Scharnhorst. Both were technically classed as pocket battleships, as by treaty those were the largest warships they were permitted. The Germans must have pretty big pockets.

And - Good Morning! Nice crop of posts today.  :beer:

Actually, the BISMARCK was never classified as anything but a battleship. What the Germans lied about was her size. The SCHARNHORST was never classified as a Panzerschiffe [the German designation for DEUTSCHLAND, later LUETZOW, ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE or ADMIRAL SCHEER] The only thing she shared with those ships was main armament  [11" guns]. She and her sister ship. GNIESENAU were classified as Schlachtkreuzeren- battlecruisers. They outweighed the pocket battleships by some 15,000 tons. The Germans later re-classified them as battleships.
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf