Author Topic: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support  (Read 5037 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2014, 09:23:02 pm »
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24840744/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter

Jahi McMath: Mom can remove brain-dead daughter from hospital, judge rules

By Matthias Gafni, Kristin Bender and Matt O'Brien
Oakland Tribune

Posted:   01/03/2014 11:14:18 AM PST | Updated:   about 2 hours ago


OAKLAND -- More than three weeks after Jahi McMath was declared brain-dead by doctors at Children's Hospital Oakland, her mother will be allowed to remove her 13-year-old daughter from the facility as long as she assumes full responsibility for her body, according to an agreement between both sides announced Friday morning in Alameda County Superior Court.

The hospital will allow a transfer team to enter the facility, take Jahi out and her entire health responsibility would then be transferred to mother Nailah Winkfield, according to the agreement. The judge denied forcing the hospital to insert a breathing and feeding tube into Jahi, which is required by all long-term care facilities willing to accept Jahi.

A tentative stipulation provided by Jahi's family attorney Christopher Dolan spelled out precise details on how Jahi would be transported from the facility.

"Petitioner must agree that she shall be wholly and exclusively responsible for Jahi McMath the moment custody is transferred in the Hospital's pediatric intensive care unit and acknowledge that she understands that the transfer and subsequent transport could impact that condition of the body, including causing cardiac arrest," according to the document.

Alameda County Sheriff's Office spokesman J.D. Nelson said a death certificate has been issued for Jahi, but is being held pending an autopsy. An air ambulance company that had quoted a price for flying Jahi from Oakland to Long Island, where a facility agreed to take her, said Friday it had not been contacted by the family yet and no flight was imminent.

After the hearing at the lower court, attorneys headed to federal court blocks away in Oakland, where a federal magistrate is expected to also weigh in on the matter.

"It's horrible that this child has died. It's also horrible that it's so difficult for her family to accept that death and I wish and I constantly think that, wouldn't it be great if they could come to terms with this terrible tragic event and I wouldn't have to stand in front of you time after time," said Douglas Straus, an attorney for the hospital, before choking up outside court.

Dolan called the agreement a "victory," but the family still needs to find a doctor to insert the breathing and feeding tubes.

"Until this agreement was just made, everything was in flux. This just removes all those impediments," he told a throng of media outside court. He said "there are doctors who are willing to do the procedure" but would not name them.

He said that getting Jahi nutrition quickly was key because she has not had any for "24 days."

The girl has been on a ventilator since she was declared brain-dead after serious complications resulting from tonsil surgery and two other procedures to remove throat and nasal tissue to treat sleep apnea on Dec. 9.

Jahi's family has been fighting for a court to order the hospital to insert feeding and breathing tubes so the girl's body could be transferred to a care facility, possibly in New York. That facility was linked to Terri Schiavo, a Florida woman who was in a permanent vegetative state before she was removed from life support, sparking a fierce nationwide end-of-life debate. The family has been trying to find an outside doctor willing to perform the procedures, as Children's Hospital Oakland says it will not operate on a "dead body."

"This is a tragic situation and I'm glad the court understands there is no legal, moral or medical duty to perform a surgical procedure on a dead person," Straus said. "There were never any impediments to the transfer of Jahi's body."
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2014, 09:25:46 pm »
Alameda County Sheriff's Office spokesman J.D. Nelson said a death certificate has been issued for Jahi, but is being held pending an autopsy.

This is moving from the tragic to the macabre.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2014, 09:30:22 pm »
The girl has been on a ventilator since she was declared brain-dead after serious complications resulting from tonsil surgery and two other procedures to remove throat and nasal tissue to treat sleep apnea on Dec. 9.

So this was much more than a tonsillectomy. 
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Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2014, 09:38:31 pm »
Alameda County Sheriff's Office spokesman J.D. Nelson said a death certificate has been issued for Jahi, but is being held pending an autopsy.

This is moving from the tragic to the macabre.

Agreed.  This is getting beyond sick. 

Offline aligncare

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2014, 09:39:30 pm »
Sounds a little like the doctors wanted to bury their mistakes.

Offline raml

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2014, 09:45:27 pm »
Praying for this family. They have been so busy with their legal fight they haven't had time to process what happened to their daughter. Maybe once they have some time to just think about what has happened they will realize they need to let her go. I do believe this legal fight has kept them from having to really deal with it all and most parents would have this tendency to delay making a decision with their heads instead they would think with their heart. I understand because it took me a year just to come to grips with losing a child. No I did not get over it I just came to accept it happened. This hospital did nothing with compassion they acted in a cold hearted way and the parents reacted to this treatment and I think a lot of the parent actions is the hospital staffs fault. A lot of you here seem to lack understanding and compassion for parents going through the hardest time of their life.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2014, 10:12:54 pm »
I am very sorry for the loss of your child, but with all due respect, you don't know the whole story on what the hospital did or did not do and why- or with how much or how little compassion- any more than the rest of us do.  This girl was declared brain dead and the family notified on December 12th- nearly 3 weeks ago. 

 I am sure everyone here can imagine that what the parents are going through is agony, but that doesn't negate what's been under discussion here.

Offline flowers

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2014, 11:07:04 pm »
The girl has been on a ventilator since she was declared brain-dead after serious complications resulting from tonsil surgery and two other procedures to remove throat and nasal tissue to treat sleep apnea on Dec. 9.

So this was much more than a tonsillectomy.
What is sleep apnea?  I know this girl is dead but I ask ...she hasn't had food for 24 days? then I am thinking no water either. What is happening to her organs?


Offline raml

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2014, 11:21:06 pm »
So Lipstick on a hilliary you have dealt with a child dying? You know how it feels or understand the process parents go through? I have heard what the grandmother (a nurse) and parents have said how the hospital staff treated them. The hospital has acted pretty bad to me at least from what the media reports they have done so far. The parents will eventually come to the right decision i just think if the hospital had more compassion things would have gone differently from the first. I was told by a nurse at the hospital when my child died that I had two more still at home and shouldn't be so upset. She was fired I didn't turn her in the person near me who heard it did she couldn't believe a nurse in a hospital could be so callous. I am going on what is being reported no I wasn't there but there is always some truth in what is being reported in these instances.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2014, 11:36:17 pm »
What is sleep apnea?  I know this girl is dead but I ask ...she hasn't had food for 24 days? then I am thinking no water either. What is happening to her organs?
Probably this is done by IV.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2014, 11:48:41 pm »
Probably this is done by IV.
I forgot about IVs thanks


Offline olde north church

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2014, 12:05:40 am »
So Lipstick on a hilliary you have dealt with a child dying? You know how it feels or understand the process parents go through? I have heard what the grandmother (a nurse) and parents have said how the hospital staff treated them. The hospital has acted pretty bad to me at least from what the media reports they have done so far. The parents will eventually come to the right decision i just think if the hospital had more compassion things would have gone differently from the first. I was told by a nurse at the hospital when my child died that I had two more still at home and shouldn't be so upset. She was fired I didn't turn her in the person near me who heard it did she couldn't believe a nurse in a hospital could be so callous. I am going on what is being reported no I wasn't there but there is always some truth in what is being reported in these instances.

So, now we're going to the "legitimacy of opinion" based upon "X".  So only people who have lost a child can possibly understand what it feels like, so are the only ones eligible to comment?  No, I haven't lost a child.  I haven't experienced a lot of things that I hope I never have to experience.  I have experienced a few things that I would never wish upon my worst enemy but I would never deny them the right to comment on.

Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2014, 12:32:55 am »
Lipstick walked into a trap when she suggested that not until he walked in that family's shoes would his opinion be accepted.

And the manner in which GD sprung it on us.....none of us had any idea.  Good Lord, I can only imagine as a father what that felt like.


.....but Lip and ONC are right, it shouldn't shame us from further debate. 

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2014, 12:33:24 am »
What is sleep apnea?  I know this girl is dead but I ask ...she hasn't had food for 24 days? then I am thinking no water either. What is happening to her organs?

I suffer from sleep apnea.

It is a sleeping disorder where your wind passages collapse and do not allow enough oxygen to enter into your system as you sleep.

From the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute:

Quote
Sleep apnea (AP-ne-ah) is a common disorder in which you have one or more pauses in breathing or shallow breaths while you sleep.

Breathing pauses can last from a few seconds to minutes. They may occur 30 times or more an hour. Typically, normal breathing then starts again, sometimes with a loud snort or choking sound.

Sleep apnea usually is a chronic (ongoing) condition that disrupts your sleep. When your breathing pauses or becomes shallow, you’ll often move out of deep sleep and into light sleep.

As a result, the quality of your sleep is poor, which makes you tired during the day. Sleep apnea is a leading cause of excessive daytime sleepiness.

Sleep apnea often goes undiagnosed. Doctors usually can't detect the condition during routine office visits. Also, no blood test can help diagnose the condition.

Most people who have sleep apnea don't know they have it because it only occurs during sleep. A family member or bed partner might be the first to notice signs of sleep apnea.

The most common type of sleep apnea is obstructive sleep apnea. In this condition, the airway collapses or becomes blocked during sleep. This causes shallow breathing or breathing pauses.

When you try to breathe, any air that squeezes past the blockage can cause loud snoring. Obstructive sleep apnea is more common in people who are overweight, but it can affect anyone. For example, small children who have enlarged tonsil tissues in their throats may have obstructive sleep apnea.

Central sleep apnea is a less common type of sleep apnea. This disorder occurs if the area of your brain that controls your breathing doesn't send the correct signals to your breathing muscles. As a result, you'll make no effort to breathe for brief periods.

Central sleep apnea can affect anyone. However, it's more common in people who have certain medical conditions or use certain medicines.

Central sleep apnea can occur with obstructive sleep apnea or alone. Snoring typically doesn't happen with central sleep apnea.

This article mainly focuses on obstructive sleep apnea.

Outlook

Untreated sleep apnea can:

Increase the risk of high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, obesity, and diabetesexternal link icon
Increase the risk of, or worsen, heart failure
Make arrhythmias (ah-RITH-me-ahs), or irregular heartbeats, more likely
Increase the chance of having work-related or driving accidents
Sleep apnea is a chronic condition that requires long-term management. Lifestyle changes, mouthpieces, surgery, and breathing devices can successfully treat sleep apnea in many people.

I had the very surgery that this little girl had.

Sad.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2014, 12:37:50 am »
So, now we're going to the "legitimacy of opinion" based upon "X".  So only people who have lost a child can possibly understand what it feels like, so are the only ones eligible to comment?  No, I haven't lost a child.  I haven't experienced a lot of things that I hope I never have to experience.  I have experienced a few things that I would never wish upon my worst enemy but I would never deny them the right to comment on.

Then again, not many of us have walked on the shoes of doctors, surgeons and nurses who have to deliver news like these to grieving families. At least I haven't.

I often wonder how they keep their sanity. They certainly must build up some rather impenetrable walls.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2014, 12:38:33 am »

I had the very surgery that this little girl had.

Sad.

She was young....but she wasn't "little".

Is it possible that the girl's weight had anything to do with the botched surgery and/or recovery?

And wouldn't her weight be a reason she's not already 'dead' dead.   Did I just type that?    :shrug:

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Offline flowers

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2014, 12:43:32 am »
I suffer from sleep apnea.

It is a sleeping disorder where your wind passages collapse and do not allow enough oxygen to enter into your system as you sleep.

From the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute:

I had the very surgery that this little girl had.

Sad.
Thank you so much for that info


Offline olde north church

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2014, 12:54:48 am »
Then again, not many of us have walked on the shoes of doctors, surgeons and nurses who have to deliver news like these to grieving families. At least I haven't.

I often wonder how they keep their sanity. They certainly must build up some rather impenetrable walls.

I didn't even want to split directions like that.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline LambChop

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2014, 12:58:16 am »

As someone who has made this decision... it's about the patient... not the survivors.  You do the right thing and let them go.  Keeping a body breathing on machines when the brain has ceased to function is inhumane and selfish.

I'm with you on this one.  It's one of the hardest decisions to make, but still needs to be made. No matter how painful it may be.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2014, 01:15:03 am »
She was young....but she wasn't "little".

Is it possible that the girl's weight had anything to do with the botched surgery and/or recovery?

And wouldn't her weight be a reason she's not already 'dead' dead.   Did I just type that?    :shrug:

I wasn't going there.

Her weight was quite possibly the cause of the apnea.

Weight may matter in surgery because it increases the strain on the heart.

A guess, not a medical opinion.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 02:20:15 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2014, 01:24:45 am »
She was young....but she wasn't "little".

Is it possible that the girl's weight had anything to do with the botched surgery and/or recovery?

And wouldn't her weight be a reason she's not already 'dead' dead.   Did I just type that?    :shrug:

Obesity is a cause of sleep apnea.  A lot of patients opt for CPAP... but it makes sleeping uncomfortable.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2014, 01:50:55 am »
I want to thank all you guys for a great sensible thread..I was worried/feared that this topic may go the same route the Terri Schiavo thread did at FR years ago...wow was that a battleground if you all recall...
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2014, 02:39:36 am »
I want to thank all you guys for a great sensible thread..I was worried/feared that this topic may go the same route the Terri Schiavo thread did at FR years ago...wow was that a battleground if you all recall...

IIRC, most of all had the same POV on Schiavo back on TOS. 

Pragmatic and sensible.   :laugh:

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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2014, 02:49:18 am »
IIRC, most of all had the same POV on Schiavo back on TOS. 

Pragmatic and sensible.   :laugh:
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Terri Schiavo's Family Joins Fight for Teen on Life Support
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2014, 04:50:59 am »
I want to thank all you guys for a great sensible thread..I was worried/feared that this topic may go the same route the Terri Schiavo thread did at FR years ago...wow was that a battleground if you all recall...

The topic was what killed my primary identity at FR.

It took them a while to find the others.
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