Author Topic: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.  (Read 344 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« on: December 30, 2013, 12:52:20 PM »

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 12:56:09 PM »
Slow creep towards the GMI (Guaranteed Minimum Income). Giving every citizen a minimum income to replace welfare programs. It is like a citizenship dividend.  Switzerland has been trying to get this and even some Conservatives and Libertarians have supported this.

It is one of the most deceptive programs one could ever contrive. It makes every citizen in the country a dependent of the government. It strips the last bastion of individuals who don't want to be dependent on the system.

The idea described with the homeless is great if done privately. But I see this as a creeping step towards a new national welfare paradigm.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 01:03:32 PM »
Slow creep towards the GMI (Guaranteed Minimum Income). Giving every citizen a minimum income to replace welfare programs. It is like a citizenship dividend.  Switzerland has been trying to get this and even some Conservatives and Libertarians have supported this.

It is one of the most deceptive programs one could ever contrive. It makes every citizen in the country a dependent of the government. It strips the last bastion of individuals who don't want to be dependent on the system.

The idea described with the homeless is great if done privately. But I see this as a creeping step towards a new national welfare paradigm.

I hardly recognize this country now..... and ideas like this make me shake my head...

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 01:10:18 PM »
I hardly recognize this country now..... and ideas like this make me shake my head...

This is actually a very old idea. I've traced it back to at least the 20s. It was proposed as a nuvo-socialist alternative to Communism (but still Collectivism).  Heinlein wrote two novels addressing both the good and bad aspects of this. "For Us the Living" which explores the utopian view of this and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" which ugly consequence of society after this. (the former is far more overt in the philosophy of the GMI, the latter makes sense when read in context of his other novels).

If you've ever studied the full Cloward-Piven strategy, not just the destabilizing aspects most people talk about, it is their stated end goal. Traditional Socialism and Communism they said would fail and so they promoted this alternative Socialistic approach.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 01:12:21 PM »
The rampant selection bias in these so-called "studies" is grotesque.  For example, with the initial anecdote about the 13 - who picked them, what criteria were used, and how much screening did they go through?  It's easy enough to select a handful of homeless who, with a leg up, will keep themselves off the streets; if you select enough with a sufficiently randomized choosing method, it won't work nearly so neatly.  Just ask those families that have struggled to support a fallen family member - drug use, alcohol use, abuse, whatever - who never, ever seems to quite manage to get themselves together, no matter how much "free money" the family "scatters" or showers on that member.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 01:31:58 PM »
Slow creep towards the GMI (Guaranteed Minimum Income). Giving every citizen a minimum income to replace welfare programs. It is like a citizenship dividend.  Switzerland has been trying to get this and even some Conservatives and Libertarians have supported this.

It is one of the most deceptive programs one could ever contrive. It makes every citizen in the country a dependent of the government. It strips the last bastion of individuals who don't want to be dependent on the system.

The idea described with the homeless is great if done privately. But I see this as a creeping step towards a new national welfare paradigm.
The same general approach is recommended by the co-author of "The Bell Curve," Charles Murray.

One might describe this as "compassionate libertarianism" whereby failed programs of permanent welfarism and dependency are replaced with stipends, which individuals use as they wish.

A lot of costly programs are eliminated.

How has the War on Poverty really turned out? How about The War on Drugs? They seem like huge, permanent government employment schemes, that never solve what they started for, cost a fortune, create permanent dependency, etc.



"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Free money might be the best way to end poverty.
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 01:56:33 PM »
Not likely to happen in this country. Rush has pointed out several times how Liberals are mostly interested in perpetuating the "homeless problem", not solving it (just as they perpetuate racial division).

The "homeless" provide Liberals with a ready made avenue to demonstrate (show? lol) their "compassion" by demanding government programs to help the less fortunate; they use the "homeless problem" when needed to bash Republicans for their heartlessness (note how all the constant stories about the "homeless" problem under Bush have completely disappeared under Obama); and, the "problem" provides oodles of bureaucrats employment and Congresscritters ample opportunity to spend more and more money (on a "problem" that is somehow never resolved).

New shopping carts, anyone?
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