Author Topic: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority  (Read 1453 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« on: December 28, 2013, 08:36:48 PM »

Offline olde north church

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2013, 09:04:09 PM »
1.  What is the Senate going to do about abortion?

2.  What is the Senate going to do about prayer?

3.  What is the Senate going to do about marriage?

4.  What is the Senate going to do about values?

How about?  Can't.  Won't.  Squat.  Nothing.
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Offline EC

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2013, 09:19:07 PM »
1.  What is the Senate going to do about abortion?

State issue.

Quote
2.  What is the Senate going to do about prayer?

Nothing. First amendment forbids them getting involved.

Quote
3.  What is the Senate going to do about marriage?

State issue.

Quote
4.  What is the Senate going to do about values?

Leading by example would be nice, but don't hold your breath.

Pulling your chain slightly here - but none of those are Federal issues. Those are all for the people of their respective states to decide - then pay for out of their own pockets.
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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 09:23:28 PM »
Boortz is and always will be an anti-Christian bigot.  His hated of people with any kind of moral character is one reason why I never listened to him and thought about organizing a protest when he came here to speak.
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Online Oceander

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 11:35:52 PM »
There is some truth to that statement, whatever one thinks of the person who uttered it.  As EC rightly points out, the federal government has no business whatsoever messing around with the first three items, and the fourth is simply too vague to have any real meaning - unless, of course, one wants to impose by federal fiat a whole bunch of other social viewpoints.

Conservatives were outraged when the Supreme Court found some sort of penumbra emanating from the Constitution sufficient to make abortion a federal issue, and yet now, there they are, wanting to make abortion a federal issue by using the vast, coercive, power of the federal government to dictate other peoples' decisions about abortion.  Conservatives were correct the first time:  there is nothing in the Constitution that gives the federal government the right or the power to stick its nose into an individual's decisions about abortion; it was unconstitutional then and it's just as unconstitutional now when social conservatives try to do it.*

With respect to prayer, I have to ask of social conservatives this:  what part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech" do they not understand?  Prayer is a personal matter that sits at the confluence of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, and thus is doubly protected from interference by the federal government.  Social conservatives who wish to do anything other than keep the federal government's nose out of everyone's prayers - or choice to not pray - are being just as hypocritical as their liberal counterparts are.

With respect to marriage:  where in the Constitution does it say anything, anything at all, that could conceivably give Congress the power to make laws affecting who can get married and who not, whom they can marry, and whom not, and to waive the full faith and credit clause for the states on the issue of other states' marriage laws?  The answer is very short:  Nowhere.  Social conservatives who wish to use the vast, coercive, power of the federal government to impose their views on marriage on everyone else are being just as tyrannical as are liberals and the democrats.

Which leads us back to the original point:  that social conservatives could cost the GOP seats in the Senate.  Too many of the policies social conservatives push are, at bottom, exactly the same sort of despotic social engineering they rightly decry when the democrats/liberals engage in it, and, for largely historical reasons, most Americans recoil from that sort of social engineering and will reject outright a politician who appears to be seriously proposing to enact those policies.  If the GOP persists in allowing social conservatives to use it as a platform to advocate for their brand of social engineering, then the GOP will find itself being rejected by a lot of Americans who otherwise have much in common with the GOP on many other issues.



* There is one place where the Constitution does give Congress some power in regard to abortion:  the Commerce Clause power, pursuant to which the federal government can impose regulations on abortions that have some relationship to interstate commerce (which isn't much of a hurdle in any event).  However, social conservatives should be warned to practice what they preach even here:  they were outraged when the democrats attempted to justify Obamacare and the individual mandate under the Commerce Clause - as well they should have been - and it would therefore be hypocritical of social conservatives to try and impose their own version of social engineering by doing the same thing they lambasted democrats for doing.  In any event, the Supreme Court would most likely slam-dunk any such attempt because, as J. Roberts made it clear in his ruling on Obamacare, the individual mandate cannot be justified under the Commerce Clause; any similar attempt by social conservatives would most likely meet a similar fate.

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 04:31:00 AM »
3/4 of the country is Christian.  If a party doesn't take that into consideration then it won't be a majority party. 
"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
       Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 5:35 AM - Sep 14, 2017

Offline olde north church

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 05:28:10 AM »
3/4 of the country is Christian.  If a party doesn't take that into consideration then it won't be a majority party.

Of that 3/4 that is Christian, there are people who consider themselves Christian who may not go to church, those who go Church a few days a year and there are "to be seen Christians".  Of those who are Christian, how many want stores closed on Sundays?  Who want liquor banned? 
There doesn't seem to be any desire for a Christian Taliban either.
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Online massadvj

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 08:51:46 AM »
The problem with so many of the so-called "social conservatives" is that they are not all that concerned about politics.  They will show up to vote for a candidate who shares their values, but in a race between two secularists (or even between a Mormon and a Muslim) they stay home and let the devil decide.  So the question is not whether emphasizing social issues will "cost" the GOP the election, but whether there are enough votes gained in giving up the social issues to compensate for all the votes lost.  I think we got one answer to that question in 2012, but the GOP establishment remains in denial.

There is a lot of new polling to suggest that public opinion is shifting back toward the conservative view on issues like gay marriage and abortion.  Look, for example, at the recent "Duck Dynasty" fiasco.

Personally, I don't see any reason for the GOP to nationalize the campaign in 2014.  In races where social issues are likely to matter (Louisiana, for example) they ought to be emphasized.  In places where they are an albatross around the neck of the candidate, not so much.  As a party, the GOP only needs to be positioned slightly to the right of the Democrats on these issues, but individual candidates can take more extreme views based on the dynamics of each race.

Certainly, there will be quite a bit of contentiousness over social issues in some of the primaries.  But that's what primaries are for.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 08:53:07 AM by massadvj »
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 09:15:38 AM »
Akins was the GOP-e choice who stepped on his dick while reaching out, not to Tea Party types but to religious Conservatives.
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Online Oceander

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 02:11:20 PM »
3/4 of the country is Christian.  If a party doesn't take that into consideration then it won't be a majority party. 

Really?  So I've been deluded into thinking the democrats have been the majority party since approximately 2006, when they gained control of Congress?

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 02:37:48 PM »
Boortz is and always will be an anti-Christian bigot.  His hated of people with any kind of moral character is one reason why I never listened to him and thought about organizing a protest when he came here to speak.
What about his constitutionally protected right to free speech?


Online jmyrlefuller

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 04:01:12 PM »
Akins was the GOP-e choice who stepped on his dick while reaching out, not to Tea Party types but to religious Conservatives.
Akin was a Democrat stooge (hundreds of thousands in Dem campaign contributions) who the socons fell for like suckers.

Offline EC

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 04:19:56 PM »
What about his constitutionally protected right to free speech?

He has it.

It guarantees freedom of speech, not compels listeners.

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Offline olde north church

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 04:27:27 PM »
Akin was a Democrat stooge (hundreds of thousands in Dem campaign contributions) who the socons fell for like suckers.

They fall so easily, like teens into love.  I'll bet Huckabee was laughing all the way to the bank with that faux cross in the window pane gag.
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Online mountaineer

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 04:33:23 PM »
Pulling your chain slightly here - but none of those are Federal issues. Those are all for the people of their respective states to decide - then pay for out of their own pockets.
Except that the federal government uses taxpayers' dollars to fund abortions (no matter what the state may say), I agree. When I ran for the state legislature, I made it clear where I stood on social issues because it mattered. Had I won, I would have had a say in things like the definition of marriage and what went on in public schools. However, we need to educate the LIVs - both conservative and otherwise - that it's not up to the federal government to "manage" morality.
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Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2013, 04:50:39 PM »
Really?  So I've been deluded into thinking the democrats have been the majority party since approximately 2006, when they gained control of Congress?
rats have their own appeal to Christians with social welfare programs.
"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
       Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 5:35 AM - Sep 14, 2017

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2013, 04:59:56 PM »
State issue.

Nothing. First amendment forbids them getting involved.

State issue.

Leading by example would be nice, but don't hold your breath.

Pulling your chain slightly here - but none of those are Federal issues. Those are all for the people of their respective states to decide - then pay for out of their own pockets.

This is why it matters..........

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,124577.new.html#new

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2013, 05:10:21 PM »
Akin was a Democrat stooge (hundreds of thousands in Dem campaign contributions) who the socons fell for like suckers.
Akin was elected to the House in 2000.  He has a strong conservative voting record and served on the House Ways and Means Committee.  He was an early member of the U.S. House Tea Party caucus founded by Michelle Bachmann in 2010.  You believe he fooled the national GOP for 12 years before making his move?

It is true that the CA based Tea Party Express endorsed a different candidate in the 2012 Missouri race but many Missouri Tea Partiers disagreed.  https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/24282/akin_tea_party_endorsement_041212 .  The Tea Party was quite satisfied with Akin when he won the Senate primary in Aug 2012.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/07/congressman-akins-wins-missouri-gop-senate-primary-to-take-on-sen-mccaskill/
Quote
Tea Party-backed Rep. Akin wins Missouri GOP Senate primary to take on McCaskill

Score another win for the Tea Party.

Missouri Rep. Todd Akin broke out of a three-way GOP primary fight Tuesday and won the nomination to take on Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill in the fall. Akin had played up his Tea Party credentials, in an unusual primary race in which all three candidates claimed conservative, outsider appeal.

The results send yet another Tea Party-backed candidate into the general election, with the McCaskill face-off considered one of the most closely watched Senate races of the year.

Akin won a contest defined by which candidate was the most conservative. In doing so, he beat out Sarah Palin's candidate of choice, former state treasurer Sarah Steelman, and John Brunner, a businessman who poured more than $7.5 million of his own money into the race.

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/24282/akin_tea_party_endorsement_041212


"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."  -  President Donald J Trump

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....
...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security
       Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 5:35 AM - Sep 14, 2017

Offline EC

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2013, 05:10:38 PM »
Except that the federal government uses taxpayers' dollars to fund abortions (no matter what the state may say), I agree. When I ran for the state legislature, I made it clear where I stood on social issues because it mattered. Had I won, I would have had a say in things like the definition of marriage and what went on in public schools. However, we need to educate the LIVs - both conservative and otherwise - that it's not up to the federal government to "manage" morality.

Just an aside - I think that's why you ran a close race in a fairly hostile district.

Even LIV's know honesty when they see it. Most of them respect it, too.

This is why it matters..........

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,124577.new.html#new

Not saying it doesn't matter - I am saying that it does not and should not matter to the Federal government. They are purely local issues.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2013, 05:11:52 PM »


Not saying it doesn't matter - I am saying that it does not and should not matter to the Federal government. They are purely local issues.

They receive their funding from the Federal Government.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2013, 05:15:43 PM »
1.  What is the Senate going to do about abortion?

2.  What is the Senate going to do about prayer?

3.  What is the Senate going to do about marriage?

4.  What is the Senate going to do about values?

How about?  Can't.  Won't.  Squat.  Nothing.

Nothing, I hope.

From the moment Obamacare is trashed....make that the 'instant'...the economy is going to boom BIG TIME! BIG TIME!!

You're asking the Senate to legislate values?  To overturn Roe v Wade?

That's insane....and it's the very thing Boortz is speaking about.

Win the election....Get control.  Get power.   Teach Americans to fish once again.   They'll be ours for the rest of their lives.   
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2013, 05:21:09 PM »
Nothing, I hope.

From the moment Obamacare is trashed....make that the 'instant'...the economy is going to boom BIG TIME! BIG TIME!!

You're asking the Senate to legislate values?  To overturn Roe v Wade?

That's insane....and it's the very thing Boortz is speaking about.

Win the election....Get control.  Get power.   Teach Americans to fish once again.   They'll be ours for the rest of their lives.

No we are asking them to not fund these things and certainly not push things like this administration is doing with gay this and that across the board - especially our military.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2013, 05:26:49 PM »
No we are asking them to not fund these things and certainly not push things like this administration is doing with gay this and that across the board - especially our military.

The way to handle all that is with Executive Order.   Don't say a PEEP about anything.  Run on Obamacare and the shitty economy and national debt.  That's all.

Soon as he finishes the Oath of Office....he terminates all Executive Orders signed by Obama and closes down the EPA.

Then focus on the teacher unions...and the NEA.   


It's going to be a blast.    So please don't stay home again.   LOL!
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2013, 05:30:35 PM »
The way to handle all that is with Executive Order.   Don't say a PEEP about anything.  Run on Obamacare and the shitty economy and national debt.  That's all.

Soon as he finishes the Oath of Office....he terminates all Executive Orders signed by Obama and closes down the EPA.

Then focus on the teacher unions...and the NEA.   


It's going to be a blast.    So please don't stay home again.   LOL!


I didn't stay home.  But if you think Christie will do what you recommend you're dreaming.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 05:31:38 PM by Rapunzel »

Offline EC

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Re: Boortz: Social Conservatives Will Prevent Republican Majority
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2013, 05:35:00 PM »
They receive their funding from the Federal Government.

Why? Should it not be the other way around?

I know, naive question, but germane to the discussion.
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