Author Topic: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries  (Read 3616 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« on: December 26, 2013, 09:30:19 PM »

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 09:40:04 PM »
Steve Stockman has absolutely NO CHANCE against Cornyn.  His ethics issues continue to mount and he is bound to say something stupid before primary day.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 09:44:29 PM »
It would be encouraging to see as much or even more energy about defeating democrats which means more seats, instead of about replacing other Republicans which means no more seats.



"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 09:52:41 PM »
It would be encouraging to see as much or even more energy about defeating democrats which means more seats, instead of about replacing other Republicans which means no more seats.

The 2010 Tea Party was about defeating Democrats.  The GOP won the House.

  The 2014 Tea Party will be about defeating Republicans.  The GOP will win the Senate, without the Tea Party.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 10:08:28 PM »
The GOP will win the Senate, without the Tea Party.

Assuming this is correct, a most major assumption for a variety of reasons, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 10:18:18 PM »
The GOP will win the Senate, without the Tea Party.

Assuming this is correct, a most major assumption for a variety of reasons, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.

Of course.  Because if the GOP Senators are not the ideologically pure Tea Party candidates, then those Senators are no better than the Democrat Senators.

Isn't that right?           
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 10:28:11 PM »
Your kind of "Republicans," sink, are no better than Democrats.  In fact, many are worse.

We all know you want big government, RINOs who will continue to cave into everything Democrats want, so as long as it keeps your 401k in good shape.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

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Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 10:29:24 PM »
You are, for once, correct.

In the long run and when considering the future of our Republic, Because if the GOP Senators are not the ideologically pure Tea Party candidates, then those Senators are no better than the Democrat Senators.

What difference does it make if the politician destroying the Constitution has an "R" or a "D" after his name?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 10:31:28 PM by Cincinnatus »
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 10:48:11 PM »
You are, for once, correct.

In the long run and when considering the future of our Republic, Because if the GOP Senators are not the ideologically pure Tea Party candidates, then those Senators are no better than the Democrat Senators.

What difference does it make if the politician destroying the Constitution has an "R" or a "D" after his name?

None! No difference at all!

The only thing the inside the beltway crowd (both parties) is interested in is preserving their multi billion dollar a year game at the public's expense!!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 10:48:42 PM by Bigun »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 10:51:03 PM »
Your kind of "Republicans," sink, are no better than Democrats.  In fact, many are worse.

We all know you want big government, RINOs who will continue to cave into everything Democrats want, so as long as it keeps your 401k in good shape.

You are wrong, of course, in every single thing you've just said.

You're wrong a lot.  You shouldn't assume what others believe or think. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 11:03:30 PM »
My goodness, what an insult to Atomic Cow, a fellow who makes a number of intelligent and independent contributions to this Forum.

You shouldn't assume what others believe or think.

Get miffed, say something spiteful I guess.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 11:08:29 PM »
My goodness, what an insult to Atomic Cow, a fellow who makes a number of intelligent and independent contributions to this Forum.

You shouldn't assume what others believe or think.

Get miffed, say something spiteful I guess.

Never assume what someone thinks, Cindy.

Atomic Cow may make valuable contributions on other threads, but not on this one.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2013, 12:48:11 AM »
Most, if not all, politicians are driven by self-interest, not some virtuous, selfless ideological crusade. Those few ideologically driven ones, Rand Paul, Dennis Kucinich, are ineffective fringe ideologues with very lirtt.

What we see as "leaders" are those who simply echo back to us the sentiments that we already hold as benchmarks for that leader that we wish would rise. They don't do it because they truly believe that those things can actually be achieved. They do it because echoing back our own ideals and sentiments earns them our money and votes.

The T.E.A. Party began as a grass-roots movement, but what few ideologically driven candidates actually made it to Congress got eaten up by the major sharks of power and money. I like Ted Cruz, but I don't kid myself. His is a battle for influence and eventually power. If he ever gains significant power, he will have to compromise in order to remain in power.

Just as conservatives always seem to complain that the GOP caves into Democrats, liberals are bitching just as loudly about Democrats caving into Republicans.

Both sides are basically right. Even in the partisan enactment of the ACA, the progressive wing of the Democratic Party accused the Obama administration and the Democratic Party of caving in because they failed to put in place a single-payer system.

Essentially, government is a machine that preys on the sentiments, wants, needs, and fears of the people to sustain themselves in power. To do it, the incite class and race, sentiments of entitlement and fear of the evils of an out-of-control government, even as they grow the government and help it spin out of control. They garner power by telling us that they will go fight for our ideals, when they have very little intention of actually doing that.

That's why after so many years, the War on Poverty has driven the number of people living in poverty up. Why in the aftermath of every one of the billions of dollars spent in education, our kids are grossly under-performing in the world stage. Why after decades of financial and electoral support to pro-life candidates, legal abortions have been minimally diminished. Why after promising the redistribution of wealth in order to achieve a "more fair" society, wealth is concentrated on an ever-diminishing percentage of the population. The logical extension of wealth redistribution as a governing policy, sees all wealth in the hands of a small number of people holding political power.

What all politicians know is that problems solved dry up cash contributions and political support from voters. So it is in their absolute best self-interest to never actually solve any problems, and most (if not all) politicians are driven by self-interest.

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2013, 04:51:12 AM »
The GOP will win the Senate, without the Tea Party.

Assuming this is correct, a most major assumption for a variety of reasons, it will be a Pyrrhic victory.
It will be liberating.
No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.  We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence.  We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil.  And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans

-President Trump 8/14/17

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 05:32:00 AM »
What all politicians know is that problems solved dry up cash contributions and political support from voters. So it is in their absolute best self-interest to never actually solve any problems, and most (if not all) politicians are driven by self-interest.

Excellent post Luis.  As usual.  I don't agree with all your conclusions but you make a compelling case.  What you didn't touch on was the people of America get the government they ask for.  Everybody wants to blame the government nobody points the finger at the voters who choose liberalism.  Everybody thinks if the GOP just gets that one charismatic ideologue who can relate conservatism in a way voters can understand he'll convince America.  It ain't gonna happen.

It this point in time America is very evenly split between conservatives and liberals with a bunch of people who reject both ideologies in the middle.  It's not for a lack of hot air on both sides.   Anyone who wants to hear the liberal or conservative message has a lot of outlets. I can hop over to the Huff Poo to read up the liberal side or Drudge for the conservative side.  Fox or MSNBC. Rush or NPR.

In fact, In 1988 when Rush hit the radio he used to tell his audience that they needed to listen to the show for at least 4-6 weeks to understand it.  Before Fox and Rush and Internet I think a case could be made for ignorance of conservatism.  Rush never says that anymore.  Apathy is the only case to be made now and how do you message to the apathetic?  The American voter has listened to the conservative argument and found it lacking.  It's not because it wasn't phrased right.

Much like communists complaining that communism hasn't really been tried in the USSR, or Poland, or China, or Cuba...Conservatives say Dubya's watered down conservatism wasn't real, even though they idolize a man in the 80s who cut taxes, signed bloated budgets, challenged foreign powers, grew our military might, and wanted to solve illegal immigration instead of whine about it.

The power of the extreme right is waning and that is frustrating to true believers.  They search for a conspiracy to explain the choice of the voters and pray for a ideologically pure dictator who will ignore the will of the voters...for their own good.  Government may be a machine but I see it as a reflection of the voters.
No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.  We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence.  We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil.  And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans

-President Trump 8/14/17

Offline aligncare

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 08:17:00 AM »
All those words. Simplify, simplify. POLITICS SUCK! 

It's not apathy it's ignorance that afflicts us. Generations in government schools. All the rest are effects. Liberalism, affirmative action, political correctness, bloated budgets, deteriorating mores. Fix education and you fix America. There! Capt. Obvious to the rescue!

Now that our navel we have gazed it's time to kick some establishment butt in the coming new year and elect conservative/libertarian/constitutionalists at all levels of local, state, federal gov! From dogcatcher to senate. We owe future generations nothing less.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2013, 08:28:16 AM »
All those words. Simplify, simplify. POLITICS SUCK! 

It's not apathy it's ignorance that afflicts us. Generations in government schools. All the rest are effects. Liberalism, affirmative action, political correctness, bloated budgets, deteriorating mores. Fix education and you fix America. There! Capt. Obvious to the rescue!

Now that our navel we have gazed it's time to kick some establishment butt in the coming new year and elect conservative/libertarian/constitutionalists at all levels of local, state, federal gov! From dogcatcher to senate. We owe future generations nothing less.

I don't know that the fix lies in getting different politicians. New politicians will just adapt the message to get elected, then maybe when elected will simply revert on public displays of virtuous and righteous outrage at "the way things are done in DC" to maintain support from those who helped him get elected while they do things the way things are done in DC when the cameras are off.

I think that it is "course of human events" time again.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 08:32:23 AM by Luis Gonzalez »

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2013, 08:35:07 AM »
All those words. Simplify, simplify. POLITICS SUCK! 

It's not apathy it's ignorance that afflicts us. Generations in government schools. All the rest are effects. Liberalism, affirmative action, political correctness, bloated budgets, deteriorating mores. Fix education and you fix America. There! Capt. Obvious to the rescue!


Refreshing.  Thank you. 

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2013, 08:49:58 AM »
All those words. Simplify, simplify. POLITICS SUCK! 

BTW... this notion of "simplify, simplify" is either part of, or an indication of what ails us.

This notion that complex messages need to be dumbed down in order to be better absorbed by the populace feeds into a politician's tactic.

People need to fully understand the complex issues, otherwise they will simply vote for the guy who promises that there is hope in change.

The establishment will not give up its power as a result of simple elections.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 08:50:30 AM by Luis Gonzalez »

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2013, 09:38:11 AM »
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 09:49:41 AM by Bigun »

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2013, 09:53:34 AM »
I don't know that the fix lies in getting different politicians. New politicians will just adapt the message to get elected, then maybe when elected will simply revert on public displays of virtuous and righteous outrage at "the way things are done in DC" to maintain support from those who helped him get elected while they do things the way things are done in DC when the cameras are off.

I think that it is "course of human events" time again.

That may well be but even then the ONLY thing that is going to change anything is a return to governance under the Constitution!

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 04:19:15 PM »
That may well be but even then the ONLY thing that is going to change anything is a return to governance under the Constitution!

Or a whole new Constitution.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2013, 04:39:15 PM »
Or a whole new Constitution.

There is nothing wrong with the original.

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2013, 04:47:13 PM »
There is nothing wrong with the original.

 :amen:  :amen:  :amen:

The only thing wrong with it is that we haven't used it in a very long time! The current administration amply demonstrates the need for fixing that!

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Re: Politico...Who will survive? 2014's top primaries
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2013, 04:54:10 PM »
There is nothing wrong with the original.
Tell that to Mark Levin.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln


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