Author Topic: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'  (Read 447 times)

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Offline flowers

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Offline Oceander

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Re: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2013, 06:58:23 PM »
The abuse is seizing evidence without having any probable cause to do so.  Mr. Bolton's argument is tantamount to saying that so long as the cops don't have the present intent to arrest Person A for anything, nor any suspicion that Person A has committed a crime or possesses evidence of a crime, then they can freely waltz into his house, unannounced, at any time of day or night, and take photographs of everything in the house.  I trust that, when put into that perspective, the illegality of the NSA's conduct becomes apparent.

Offline EC

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Re: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2013, 07:01:00 PM »
You mean your cops can't do that?  :thud:
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Offline Oceander

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Re: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2013, 07:06:23 PM »
You mean your cops can't do that?  :thud:

Depends on exactly what you mean by "can."  As a technical matter, they aren't supposed to do that under the Constitution.  As a practical matter, they do it all the time, particularly in lower income neighborhoods.

Offline EC

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Re: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2013, 07:24:02 PM »
Depends on exactly what you mean by "can."  As a technical matter, they aren't supposed to do that under the Constitution.  As a practical matter, they do it all the time, particularly in lower income neighborhoods.

Technically they are not supposed to do it here. The only organization with the right to enter any premises at will without a court ordered warrant is HM Customs and Excise. Of course, they can't actually arrest anyone ....

You see where this is going.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2013, 07:32:34 PM »
Technically they are not supposed to do it here. The only organization with the right to enter any premises at will without a court ordered warrant is HM Customs and Excise. Of course, they can't actually arrest anyone ....

You see where this is going.

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Online Fishrrman

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Re: John Bolton: Federal Court's NSA Ruling Sends US on 'Road to Doom'
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2013, 10:44:34 PM »
Well, Mr. Bolton.

I've certainly respected your positions on other matters.
But I suggest you read up on your Thomas Jefferson.

Any court decision that preserves liberty (even at the expense of the NSA's idea of "security") is OK with me.

I'll go further.

Do you recall Judge Robert Bork's testimony before Congress years ago, that got him into so much trouble?
When under questioning, he made the statement that he didn't believe the Constitution provided any inherent "right to privacy"?

Well, actually, I believe Judge Bork was right. There's nothing in the Constitution that specifically enumerates a citizen's "right to privacy". But still, he was castigated for even mentioning it.

So... to put the hamstrings on types like you (and on the N[ew]S[tasi of]A[merica]), perhaps it's high time that the citizens of this country take action to add a "right to privacy" to the Constitution.

It should go like this:
===================
Citizens protected by this Constitution possess an inalienable right to privacy in their persons, business, and homes, and while they are in public.

It shall be a violation of this Constitution for the United States or for the several States to violate or invade the individual privacy of citizens by use of physical, mechanical, or electronic means or by the use of devices on land, on water, below the ground, or from the air.

This protection shall extend to all lawful communications and acts by an individual citizen or between two or more citizens, including content that is spoken, written, or electronically transmitted. It shall extend to citizens regardless of their location, whether in private or in public.

The only exceptions will be as governed by the Fourth Amendment of this Constitution.
===================

Four short paragraphs that anyone can understand.
Even you, Mr. Bolton.

Maybe strictly enumerated language like above, enshrined into our Constitution, would indeed put us on a "road to doom", as you predict.

But I'm willing to take my chances...


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