Girl Wounded in Colorado High School Shooting Dies

[mystery-ak]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/girl-wounded-colorado-high-school-shooting-dies/story?id=21300081

Girl Wounded in Colorado High School Shooting Dies
Dec. 21, 2013
By DEAN SCHABNER



Claire Davis, the 17-year-old Colorado girl shot in the head in a shooting at her high school, has died, hospital officials said tonight.

"It is with heavy hearts that we share that at 4:29 p.m. this afternoon, Claire Davis passed away, with her family at her side," a statement from Littleton Adventist Hospital Facebook said.

Davis, a senior at Arapahoe High School, was critically wounded when she was shot at point blank range by Karl Pierson on Friday, Dec. 13. She suffered severe head trauma in the shooting, according to the hospital.

Pierson, 18, was armed with a shotgun, machete and had Molotov cocktails in his backpack, police said.

Colorado Shooter Was Looking For Debate Team Coach

According to police, Pierson was seeking "revenge" on the school's debate team instructor, Tracy Murphy, who had dropped him from the team.

Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said when the shooter came upon her as he was looking for his intended target, Davis did not have a chance to escape.

"She is an innocent young lady, and she was an innocent victim of an evil act of violence," Robinson said. "She probably was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time."

[Rapunzel]

From all I read about her last week she was a special young lady. RIP, Claire.

[truth_seeker]

There is a growing awareness that mentally ill people put innocents at risk.

How many of these school murderer types had contact with mental health resources, or should have?

[Rapunzel]

This boy didn't seem to have mental issues like the other shooters - he had anger issues.

[Oceander]

This boy didn't seem to have mental issues like the other shooters - he had anger issues.

Anger issues that drive you to arm yourself to the teeth, go hunting for the object of your anger, and kill someone who gets in the way are not just "issues," they are clear indicia of mental illness.  As truth_seeker put it, this individual "should have" had contact with mental health resources.

[Rapunzel]

Anger issues that drive you to arm yourself to the teeth, go hunting for the object of your anger, and kill someone who gets in the way are not just "issues," they are clear indicia of mental illness.  As truth_seeker put it, this individual "should have" had contact with mental health resources.

You of all people knows the law doesn't work that way. It is why so many women with protective orders are killed - the police (or anyone) can't do anything until the person commits a crime.. it is what took the life of seven innocent people here in our town two summers ago - a jealous ex-boyfriend...... 

This kid didn't exhibit the signs of Schizophrenia like the guy who shot Giffords or the Aurora shooter or the Sandy Hook killers all did.....

[Oceander]

You of all people knows the law doesn't work that way. It is why so many women with protective orders are killed - the police (or anyone) can't do anything until the person commits a crime.. it is what took the life of seven innocent people here in our town two summers ago - a jealous ex-boyfriend...... 

This kid didn't exhibit the signs of Schizophrenia like the guy who shot Giffords or the Aurora shooter or the Sandy Hook killers all did.....

Huh?  One of us must be in the proverbial tunnel, because we're clearly talking past each other.  This has nothing to do with "the law" and everything to do with people who interact with this individual on a daily basis, particularly parents and teachers, paying attention to what's going on and taking appropriate steps to see that inappropriate behaviour is addressed.

[Rapunzel]

Huh?  One of us must be in the proverbial tunnel, because we're clearly talking past each other.  This has nothing to do with "the law" and everything to do with people who interact with this individual on a daily basis, particularly parents and teachers, paying attention to what's going on and taking appropriate steps to see that inappropriate behaviour is addressed.

We must be .. I'm not defending him - I am saying there was nothing that stands out as obvious mental illness in his background..... if you read the articles last week all the neighbors were stunned by this. They all said he was a "nice" kid.  His parents were divorced... I'm sure the mother worked and didn't know he was reading things like the “The Anarchist Cookbook."  Or perhaps his mother was a left, too?????? No one has said much about her.

Per this article

To many of his neighbors, Colorado school gunman Karl Pierson was the wholesome boy next door who liked achievement and ran on the cross country team. He even worked on an Eagle Scout project two years ago.

To schoolmates, Pierson was known for his outspoken intelligence that served him well on the debate team. But at times, he acted "weird" and alienated peers with rants about communism and his aggressiveness to win every argument, they said.

His aggressiveness caused him to clash with his debate coach who happened to be the school librarian and he was kicked off the debate team... he wanted to go to West Point and felt this had ruined his chances to get into West Point and that is what led to him doing this horrible thing.

His fellow students said "speech and debate was his life" and no longer being allowed to be on the team was the source of his anger. 

So do you call the shrinks every time a kid gets expelled from school for disagreeing with their teacher?  or kicked off debating teams or football teams and is angry about it???    I am not justifying what he did - I just haven't read anything about this particular case that would have made someone say this kid was mentally ill..   Which is actually the frightening thing here.  The other shooters were red flags - nothing seemed to say this kid was the same sort of red flag. 

[Oceander]

But at times, he acted "weird" and alienated peers with rants about communism and his aggressiveness to win every argument, they said.

That says it all.  If his peers noticed that, without the benefit of any formal training in recognizing mental illness, then the adults and teachers in his school, especially the guidance counselors, should have been able to recognize someone exhibiting sufficient indicia of potential mental illness that they should be interviewed a little more closely to determine if further examination is necessary.

As a society we're all too ready to find ADHD at the drop of a hat just because a kid is rambunctious and out of control physically, but we put our collective head in the sand and refuse to recognize the signs of potentially dangerous mental illness when they're staring us in the face.  We'll medicate rambunctious kids at the drop of a hat because it makes them more pliant and easier to control - the goal being to make them less of an irritant to ourselves - but we'll close our eyes and roll the dice with kids who exhibit "weirdness" and dangerous aggressiveness.

To put truth_seeker's statement in reverse, mental health resources should have made contact with this kid before his mental illness killed.

[Rapunzel]

this is what one of his good friends had to say.....

Redmond, the fellow student, said that he spoke to Pierson as recently as Monday and talked to him about returning to the debate team.

“I did try to help him and didn’t get to him,” Redmond added. “No one was able to get to him. At the end of the day, that’s what happened.”

He added: “The Karl that I knew was a good person, but obviously the Karl who came into the school on Friday was not.”

[Rapunzel]

this article expounded on him in more detail...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/1214/Karl-Pierson-Portrait-of-the-Arapahoe-High-School-shooting-video

Some students have suggested that Pierson was picked on at times, although he wasn’t afraid to push back verbally.

“I had class with him and knew he was very outspoken and willing to contribute, and also that he had a controlled temper he would use during discussion,” Carl Schmidt, a fellow senior, told the Los Angeles Times.

"A lot of people picked on him, but it didn't seem to bother him,” Thomas Conrad, who had an economics class with Pierson, told the Denver Post.

High school senior Frank Woronoff told CNN he had known Pierson since they were freshmen together.

"He was the last person I would expect to shoot up a high school. He was honestly incredibly humble and down to earth. He was a little geeky but in a charming way," he said.

[Rapunzel]

Then......... you have the parents... gives a few more clues his fellow students didn't have in their interviews - what were the disiplinary hearings regarding?  Clearly the father is not willing to take any of the blame (the parents were divorced and this kid split his time between the two) and is trying to place the blame on the school.... 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/16/arapahoe-claire-davis-karl-pierson/4038317/

Father of Colo. shooter questions son's discipline by teacher

The father of the Colorado high school debater who critically wounded a classmate before killing himself said Monday that the debate coach needed to explain why his son had planned to kill him.

Arapahoe High School senior Karl Pierson had been disciplined in September for threats against Tracy Murphy, who had benched him over disagreement about the debate team. Friday, Pierson critically wounded a classmate and killed himself after failing to find Murphy, who is also the school librarian.

"I'm not the guy who is going to have the answers on this," Mark Pierson told the Denver Post. "Tracy Murphy is the key player."

The paper said Pierson contacted the paper to discuss the school's discipline of his son, though he would not say whether he had threatened Murphy. He said he and his ex-wife, Barbara, had been to several disciplinary hearings this year.

Murphy and school officials have not commented on the feud between the two.

[raml]

Sounds like the father at least had his head in the sand regarding his sons actions. He puts the blame on an intended victim of his sons who luckily wasn't found by the suspect so is still alive. He needs to look to himself since a father has far more influence over his sons actions than a teacher since he helped form the boys attitude from birth. It usually is parents who tend to be the ones to ignore a child's problems not wanting to believe they have any and they not the school should be at fault for not recognizing his anger problems. When my ex and I went through a divorce way back in 1985 our oldest son was 17 and not handling it well was very angry and we got help for him and it really calmed him down to be able to vent with a counselor. The school found him to be just fine when I asked if he was giving problems at school during that time but at home we sure were aware of his simmering anger so the school is not where you need to place blame they don't always see what parents with their eyes open see and I thank God that my son came through that time fine with help.

[Oceander]

Sounds like the father at least had his head in the sand regarding his sons actions. He puts the blame on an intended victim of his sons who luckily wasn't found by the suspect so is still alive. He needs to look to himself since a father has far more influence over his sons actions than a teacher since he helped form the boys attitude from birth. It usually is parents who tend to be the ones to ignore a child's problems not wanting to believe they have any and they not the school should be at fault for not recognizing his anger problems. When my ex and I went through a divorce way back in 1985 our oldest son was 17 and not handling it well was very angry and we got help for him and it really calmed him down to be able to vent with a counselor. The school found him to be just fine when I asked if he was giving problems at school during that time but at home we sure were aware of his simmering anger so the school is not where you need to place blame they don't always see what parents with their eyes open see and I thank God that my son came through that time fine with help.

God bless you, and I wish every parent was as attentive, and as clear-eyed as you were.  I try to take a balanced view of my daughter - only God knows if I really manage it - because it allows me to recognize her for who she is in all respects, gives me insight into why she does what she does (or doesn't do), and helps me to be a better parent by spotting those areas where I need to do better or where there's something that I need to address before it becomes a problem.  I hear too many horror stories, and see some, too, of parents who are not only blind to their child's own flaws, but believe that their child is ideal, the epitome of what a human being should be, and blame any apparent failing of their child on someone - anyone - else other than the child or themselves.

[Chieftain]

There is a growing awareness that mentally ill people put innocents at risk.

How many of these school murderer types had contact with mental health resources, or should have?

The problem is that the vast majority of mental health services in this country are accessed only through the courts, and the police are usually the first contact a mentally ill person has with the system, such as it is.

[Oceander]

The problem is that the vast majority of mental health services in this country are accessed only through the courts, and the police are usually the first contact a mentally ill person has with the system, such as it is.

True, but there are any number of other people who have daily contact with children who exhibit signs of potential mental illness - people who have positions of authority and whose obligation it is to see to the best interests of the children they interact with - who should be able to recognize and identify individuals who should be examined more closely, and who should be able to identify those children to appropriate programs within their local community who can evaluate those children without fear of retribution.

[mountaineer]

The junior communist wanted to go to West Point? Good grief. That's all we need.

Actually, this kid reminds me of someone in my family who has inflicted great hurt on everyone else for many decades and continues to do so: extremely intelligent, politically to the extreme left, angry for no real reason (mostly over imagined offenses he claims were committed against him), persecution complex and delusions of grandeur. I despise him for what he's done, even though I acknowledge the substantial mental illness and effect of past drug abuse. 

[truth_seeker]

The junior communist wanted to go to West Point? Good grief. That's all we need.

Actually, this kid reminds me of someone in my family who has inflicted great hurt on everyone else for many decades and continues to do so: extremely intelligent, politically to the extreme left, angry for no real reason (mostly over imagined offenses he claims were committed against him), persecution complex and delusions of grandeur. I despise him for what he's done, even though I acknowledge the substantial mental illness and effect of past drug abuse. 

Which came first, the drug use or mental illness?

(Some mentally ill people self-medicate, because they think it help...which it may do in their minds, for awhile....until the drug use further compounds their problems)

The combination of substance abuse and mental illness is a recognized category of illness called "dual-diagnosis," and is a separate specialty in psychology/psychiatry.

There are hospitals which specialize in this field, called "psychiatric hospitals," or units within hospitals.

[Cincinnatus]

RIP, Claire, and I hope your family can some relieve from the suffering this has brought them.

[Oceander]

Which came first, the drug use or mental illness?

(Some mentally ill people self-medicate, because they think it help...which it may do in their minds, for awhile....until the drug use further compounds their problems)

The combination of substance abuse and mental illness is a recognized category of illness called "dual-diagnosis," and is a separate specialty in psychology/psychiatry.

There are hospitals which specialize in this field, called "psychiatric hospitals," or units within hospitals.

Agreed

[mountaineer]

Which came first, the drug use or mental illness?

There are hospitals which specialize in this field, called "psychiatric hospitals," or units within hospitals.

Needless to say, I didn't provide this person's entire life story. Before the drug use he did spend some time in a psych ward. It didn't help. It's just something else he uses as evidence that he's been persecuted all his life.

[NavyCanDo]

Getting Mental Health intervention is not as simple as some here seem to think it is. We have been trying to get our 12-year old child into see somebody since he was 10. It was a 6-8 month waiting list just to see the Nurse that does the first initial screening. Once we did that it was back on the waiting list to see a physiologist and we are still waiting.  When a child that young who struggles with Autism Spectrum Disorder (Aspergers) who talked once of suicide and just recently had a severe meltdown in school can't get quick needed help, how does anyone think this older kid was somehow going to jump in front of everyone?  Our Mental Health system is broken.

I opened myself up a bit about my son, so let me just finish that up by saying  he does not show violent tendencies at all, and is normally a very sweet well behaved, and thoughtful child - but its those rare moments that bring us his parents to our knees crying and praying for help because we worry so much about him as he grows older where other kids can be so much crueler to kids that are a bit different.   In middle school and high school he will get bullied, he will be teased. Without a therapist to assist me it's going to be up to us and God to prepare him for what is coming his way.

[mountaineer]

Good luck getting psych help for anyone over 18 who doesn't appreciate his or her need for it. That's they problem: they're crazy, but they don't think they are.

Edit to add: Navy, I was not referring to a situation like yours. I was thinking of some of the students at Mr. M's college - all legally adults - whose behavior is potentially harmful to themselves and others, but not to the point where any of the "involuntary commitment" provision of the law would be available.

[NavyCanDo]

In the end I think my son will be fine, and will have a successful life just as so many other highly successful people with Aspergers (Bill Gates being one) - But the streets are full of truly sick and  potentially dangerous mentally ill. A walk through Seattle and any large city near you is all the proof you need of that. People who at one time would have been institutionalized to protect the public and themselves now walk among us.