Author Topic: City to dealership: Take military flags down  (Read 629 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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City to dealership: Take military flags down
« on: December 19, 2013, 05:26:23 PM »
http://www.localnews8.com/news/city-to-dealership-take-military-flags-down/-/308662/23554380/-/fkdh2g/-/index.html


City to dealership: Take military flags down
Ramon Bailey
POSTED: 05:23 PM MST Dec 18, 2013  UPDATED: 05:38 PM MST Dec 18, 2013

The City of Idaho Falls told an auto sales company to take down its flags honoring the military.

"We're just here supporting the troops," said Autos 4 Less owner Jonathon Long. "We're even doing a Christmas donation box for veterans."

Long was told to take these flags down after the city apparently received complaints.

"With that notice, I pulled the flags down, and after thinking about it overnight, I became more and more upset and decided to do something about it," Long said Wednesday.

Long contacted the code enforcement officer and was told the flags are considered portable signs and do not follow the city's sign code regulations.

Long was told he could face six months in jail and a $1,000 fine if Autos 4 Less continued to fly the flags.

"I'm just really upset we can't support our military," Long said.

One of Long's employees is especially upset.

"It really hits home for me," said Transportation Specialist David Claiborne. "I'm a veteran. I was in the Navy. I have a son that actually went to Afghanistan in the Province of Helmand and fought for this country literally, and we love to support our troops."

The city says it's not the content of the signs, but simply the rules. So for now, Autos 4 Less will have to cooperate.

"We do support our troops, and hopefully we'll be able to put our flags back up," said Claiborne.

A code enforcement officer also said the business doesn't have a permit for even one portable sign.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Online EC

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 05:34:00 PM »
No law against him painting the flags on the side of his building, right?

If someone fancies suggesting that .....

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 05:35:25 PM by EC »
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Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 08:49:16 PM »
Idaho Falls? It hardly seems possible.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 08:51:35 PM »
Idaho Falls? It hardly seems possible.

Scary, isn't it.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2013, 09:36:58 PM »
Actually, while I do agree that this is a particularly thoughtless example of code enforcement, there is some rationale behind it:  if the rules differentiated between permissible and impermissible signs on the basis of content, then the rule would almost certainly be held to be unconstitutional because it violated someone's right to freedom of expression.  Obviously, a more nuanced approach would be preferable, but a lot of smaller cities and towns (a) don't really have the resources to hire sophisticated code enforcement officers, and (b) more practically, cannot afford the legal fees they'd have to bear when (not if) they were sued - most likely by some well-funded organization like the ACLU - on the ground that the rule was unconstitutional.

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2013, 09:52:29 PM »
Idaho Falls? It hardly seems possible.
It demonstrates how far out of touch government employees, as a class, have become from the community which pays them.

About 20 years ago my town had a "director of community cultural services" who encouraged young people from other towns to do graffiti on walls in our town. There had been a history of local artists doing cool murals there for years. But this now became outsiders, putting up ghetto crap.

One of the local artists was a neighbor of mine, who did a popular mural of a Woody at the beach, surfboards, girls in bikinis, etc. He's a liberal, too. But when confronted with the crap going up, he supported ending the entire program.

I led a fight to end the program, and got yes votes from 8 of 9 members of the Council.

The point was that the government employee who instigated the problems, was complete out of touch with community values, norms, positions etc.

Sounds like Idaho Falls has a related problem. The problem goes further, because often the supervisors of the offending employee are sympathetic with their culture pushing subordinate.

All the government employees get paid for 40 hours per week, while we have to cope with their misdeeds as unpaid volunteers.

 

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2013, 10:03:40 PM »
Code enforcement officers are pretty much impossible to deal with .  A friend of ours in CA has a second home out here. It's a two-story house with a deck over the garage with a 180 degree view of the lake.  The deck had a slatted patio roof.  All this was constructed when the house was built back before we had "code enforcement" in town.  For 30 years there was never a problem, then the city hired a new CE officer who literally drove up and down streets looking for infractions.  Well, my friends were nailed and because the house was constructed before they were keeping a lot of records on property in town she decided they had to tear the roof down... no amount of trying to talk to her or point out some really trashy roofs (their's wasn't trashy) around it was to no avail, she had decided it HAD to come down... so eventually rather than start paying fines they hired someone to remove the roof.  He has repaired the fascia where the roof attached and plans to get one of the sunbrella covers that pulls out and then pushed back in flat so when they are out here in the summer they will once again have shade on the deck.   
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 10:09:03 PM »
Code enforcement officers are pretty much impossible to deal with .  A friend of ours in CA has a second home out here. It's a two-story house with a deck over the garage with a 180 degree view of the lake.  The deck had a slatted patio roof.  All this was constructed when the house was built back before we had "code enforcement" in town.  For 30 years there was never a problem, then the city hired a new CE officer who literally drove up and down streets looking for infractions.  Well, my friends were nailed and because the house was constructed before they were keeping a lot of records on property in town she decided they had to tear the roof down... no amount of trying to talk to her or point out some really trashy roofs (their's wasn't trashy) around it was to no avail, she had decided it HAD to come down... so eventually rather than start paying fines they hired someone to remove the roof.  He has repaired the fascia where the roof attached and plans to get one of the sunbrella covers that pulls out and then pushed back in flat so when they are out here in the summer they will once again have shade on the deck.   

Was it built before they had a building code, or was it within the code that existed when it was built?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 10:16:00 PM »
Was it built before they had a building code, or was it within the code that existed when it was built?

It was within the code when it was built - as a matter of fact the guy he hired to take it down had a heck of a time getting it down because it was well-constructed as part of the house) - but she refused to consider that it was grandfathered and did not have to meet the newer - much more stringent - building codes put in place in the late 90's.  The house was constructed in the late 70's.  Short of spending money on a lawyer he finally just gave up fighting with her.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2013, 10:17:45 PM »
It was within the code when it was built - as a matter of fact the guy he hired to take it down had a heck of a time getting it down because it was well-constructed as part of the house) - but she refused to consider that it was grandfathered and did not have to meet the newer - much more stringent - building codes put in place in the late 90's.  The house was constructed in the late 70's.  Short of spending money on a lawyer he finally just gave up fighting with her.

Since money was going to be spent either way, I can't necessarily fault the decision, bitter as it must have been.  That being said, I can only hope that your friends made it part of their mission to make this a-hole's professional life very uncomfortable and do whatever it took (legally) to get her removed.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2013, 10:29:27 PM »
Since money was going to be spent either way, I can't necessarily fault the decision, bitter as it must have been.  That being said, I can only hope that your friends made it part of their mission to make this a-hole's professional life very uncomfortable and do whatever it took (legally) to get her removed.

If they were here full time I think Ken would have gone to the mat with her, but as it was he had to make several trips out here to deal with it and finally just wanted it off his back - they were in the process of remodeling their home in Yorba Linda at the time and this was just a royal pain he didn't need at the time - they mostly use this house in the summer - their relatives all take turns coming out for a week or more and boating, etc. and since a lot of their relatives come down from the Seattle area they are not used to our heat so the shade on the deck was much appreciated.  Right now, until he gets some shade for the deck, we mostly sit out there in the evening.   The property sits up on a hill and the view is the real value of the property. 
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline olde north church

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 06:24:17 AM »
Code enforcement officers are pretty much impossible to deal with .  A friend of ours in CA has a second home out here. It's a two-story house with a deck over the garage with a 180 degree view of the lake.  The deck had a slatted patio roof.  All this was constructed when the house was built back before we had "code enforcement" in town.  For 30 years there was never a problem, then the city hired a new CE officer who literally drove up and down streets looking for infractions.  Well, my friends were nailed and because the house was constructed before they were keeping a lot of records on property in town she decided they had to tear the roof down... no amount of trying to talk to her or point out some really trashy roofs (their's wasn't trashy) around it was to no avail, she had decided it HAD to come down... so eventually rather than start paying fines they hired someone to remove the roof.  He has repaired the fascia where the roof attached and plans to get one of the sunbrella covers that pulls out and then pushed back in flat so when they are out here in the summer they will once again have shade on the deck.

Officer sounds like the type of guy who would have been tarred and feathered when the people in this country had balls.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2013, 02:23:50 PM »
Officer sounds like the type of guy who would have been tarred and feathered when the people in this country had balls.

It's amazing what happens when someone has a little authority.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Oceander

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2013, 10:47:39 PM »
It's amazing what happens when someone has a little authority.

Obama being the poster child.

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2013, 01:31:08 PM »
I work for a mechanical contractor and deal with various inspectors quite often.  Many try and make up code, or add their interpretation to it on a regular basis. 

As my old boss said, "just remember, these are people that could not make it in the industry."

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2013, 01:38:05 PM »
I work for a mechanical contractor and deal with various inspectors quite often.  Many try and make up code, or add their interpretation to it on a regular basis. 

As my old boss said, "just remember, these are people that could not make it in the industry."

In many locals the color of the tags your job get's largely depends on what's in the box the helper puts in the inspector's car after he get's out!
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2013, 01:46:02 PM »
In many locals the color of the tags your job get's largely depends on what's in the box the helper puts in the inspector's car after he get's out!

LOL, we've had a few of those too. 

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2013, 02:16:09 PM »
I work for a mechanical contractor and deal with various inspectors quite often.  Many try and make up code, or add their interpretation to it on a regular basis. 

As my old boss said, "just remember, these are people that could not make it in the industry."


Reminds me of the inspector we had in Chino Hills, the guy was HATED up and down our hill.. when George came home one night to find he had redlined plans approved by the county he took off work the next day yo ho down to the county offices out in San Bernardino to file a complaint about the guy, they told him they'd had nothing but complaints and would assign a new inspector to our area... oh and our plans were perfectly fine...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 02:16:37 PM by Rapunzel »
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline SouthTexas

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Re: City to dealership: Take military flags down
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2013, 08:29:41 PM »

Reminds me of the inspector we had in Chino Hills, the guy was HATED up and down our hill.. when George came home one night to find he had redlined plans approved by the county he took off work the next day yo ho down to the county offices out in San Bernardino to file a complaint about the guy, they told him they'd had nothing but complaints and would assign a new inspector to our area... oh and our plans were perfectly fine...

The ones I love are when they try and redesign halfway through a project.   Had a good one one time where they castigated the designers and raised all kinds of hell.  It was the city's building AND their design.  :silly:


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