Author Topic: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem  (Read 319 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« on: December 13, 2013, 10:52:19 PM »

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
Re: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 10:53:46 PM »
Our political structure is irretrievably broken. Despite what they want people to believe, our two political parties are very much on the same page about most issues.   In the meantime:

$17,229,291,835,680.58.. 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 10:55:51 PM by Rapunzel »

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,691
Re: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 11:05:55 PM »
Richard Viguerie is still struggling to live off his halcyon Reagan days.  Since the 80s, Viguerie hasn't contributed anything but bile and vitriol to the Republican Party. 

And he hasn't been right about anything either.

He's another who'd rather lose on principle than win on compromise.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,422
  • Chief Dork
Re: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 11:25:14 PM »
Richard Viguerie is still struggling to live off his halcyon Reagan days.  Since the 80s, Viguerie hasn't contributed anything but bile and vitriol to the Republican Party. 

And he hasn't been right about anything either.

He's another who'd rather lose on principle than win on compromise.

At one level, I agree with the essential point of your last sentence; however, what I find lacking in the premise as stated thus is any recognition of the fact that compromise solely for the sake of winning is equally false because one who pursues that avenue will inevitably, and necessarily, end up compromising one's own fundamental principles, becoming that which one opposes.

There is truth to both sides of this argument:  a few too many conservative republicans seem to have crossed over from a stand on principles to mere martyrdom, which seems to be the gist of many moderate complaints against conservatives.  At the same time, a few too many moderate republicans seem to have forgotten that compromise is merely a tool to be used in accomplishing other, substantive, ends, it is not an end in itself, and that one who will compromise on anything and everything solely for the sake of being on the "winning" side will have accomplished nothing other than making one's self inconsequential or worse, becoming that which one claims to oppose, which seems to be the gist of many conservative complaints against moderates.

People like Boehner and McCain appear to have made a Golden Calf out of compromise for the sake of compromise.  People like Cruz appear to have flirted a little too often with martyrdom.  Both sides need to get real and need to apply the art of compromise to the ongoing arguments they have between themselves.  Certain it is that moderates should be practicing the art of rational compromise with their conservative brethren in the republican party before they try the far more perilous task of trying to reach a rational compromise with the democrats/liberals.  Certain it is that the moderates need to do a lot more practicing with the art of compromise before they continue trying to compromise with the democrats/liberals because to-date they seem to have simply been engaged in giving the farm away rather than getting something valuable back from the democrats/liberals in exchange for their compromises.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,691
Re: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 11:28:15 PM »
At one level, I agree with the essential point of your last sentence; however, what I find lacking in the premise as stated thus is any recognition of the fact that compromise solely for the sake of winning is equally false because one who pursues that avenue will inevitably, and necessarily, end up compromising one's own fundamental principles, becoming that which one opposes.

There is truth to both sides of this argument:  a few too many conservative republicans seem to have crossed over from a stand on principles to mere martyrdom, which seems to be the gist of many moderate complaints against conservatives.  At the same time, a few too many moderate republicans seem to have forgotten that compromise is merely a tool to be used in accomplishing other, substantive, ends, it is not an end in itself, and that one who will compromise on anything and everything solely for the sake of being on the "winning" side will have accomplished nothing other than making one's self inconsequential or worse, becoming that which one claims to oppose, which seems to be the gist of many conservative complaints against moderates.

People like Boehner and McCain appear to have made a Golden Calf out of compromise for the sake of compromise.  People like Cruz appear to have flirted a little too often with martyrdom.  Both sides need to get real and need to apply the art of compromise to the ongoing arguments they have between themselves.  Certain it is that moderates should be practicing the art of rational compromise with their conservative brethren in the republican party before they try the far more perilous task of trying to reach a rational compromise with the democrats/liberals.  Certain it is that the moderates need to do a lot more practicing with the art of compromise before they continue trying to compromise with the democrats/liberals because to-date they seem to have simply been engaged in giving the farm away rather than getting something valuable back from the democrats/liberals in exchange for their compromises.

A very good and thoughtful post.  Thanks very much.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,422
  • Chief Dork
Re: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 11:30:34 PM »
A very good and thoughtful post.  Thanks very much.

Every once in a while I try to stir things up.  I'll probably be back to my curmudgeonly self soon enough! ;^)

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,542
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: The GOP's Paul Ryan Problem
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 11:47:48 PM »
At one level, I agree with the essential point of your last sentence; however, what I find lacking in the premise as stated thus is any recognition of the fact that compromise solely for the sake of winning is equally false because one who pursues that avenue will inevitably, and necessarily, end up compromising one's own fundamental principles, becoming that which one opposes.

There is truth to both sides of this argument:  a few too many conservative republicans seem to have crossed over from a stand on principles to mere martyrdom, which seems to be the gist of many moderate complaints against conservatives.  At the same time, a few too many moderate republicans seem to have forgotten that compromise is merely a tool to be used in accomplishing other, substantive, ends, it is not an end in itself, and that one who will compromise on anything and everything solely for the sake of being on the "winning" side will have accomplished nothing other than making one's self inconsequential or worse, becoming that which one claims to oppose, which seems to be the gist of many conservative complaints against moderates.

People like Boehner and McCain appear to have made a Golden Calf out of compromise for the sake of compromise.  People like Cruz appear to have flirted a little too often with martyrdom.  Both sides need to get real and need to apply the art of compromise to the ongoing arguments they have between themselves.  Certain it is that moderates should be practicing the art of rational compromise with their conservative brethren in the republican party before they try the far more perilous task of trying to reach a rational compromise with the democrats/liberals.  Certain it is that the moderates need to do a lot more practicing with the art of compromise before they continue trying to compromise with the democrats/liberals because to-date they seem to have simply been engaged in giving the farm away rather than getting something valuable back from the democrats/liberals in exchange for their compromises.

 blij26


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf