Author Topic: Is our government legitimate?  (Read 462 times)

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Offline xfreeper

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Is our government legitimate?
« on: December 11, 2013, 11:18:57 AM »
Just wanted to raise this question for discussion. With approval ratings for congress below 10% and for the administration around 38%, how can our government be considered legitimate, and more importantly, what is the solution? I know in theory we have the ability to vote them out but do we really? The level of corruption virtually insures that a gov’t that is widely disapproved of remains in power. It seems impossible to clean house and meanwhile the country slides more and more.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2013, 11:38:55 AM »
A government, no matter how corrupt, is only as legitimate as the people allow it to be. In our system, the only poll that counts is on election day.

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2013, 11:41:55 AM »
A government, no matter how corrupt, is only as legitimate as the people allow it to be. In our system, the only poll that counts is on election day.
Given that is the case, can we really expect anything to change? We have been through several cycles of elections with congressional approval very low.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2013, 11:46:29 AM »
Given that is the case, can we really expect anything to change? We have been through several cycles of elections with congressional approval very low.

We can only blame ourselves.

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2013, 11:55:40 AM »
We can only blame ourselves.

I would agree if the elections themselves were legitimate. Can we really say that given the level of corruption? Life time politicians have gamed the system so that the solution, elections, is not really a viable solution. Are the voters to blame for that? I'm beginning to think not. The idea that we get the government we deserve via elections is contingent on legitimate elections and I don't believe we have that.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 01:00:18 PM »
I would agree if the elections themselves were legitimate. Can we really say that given the level of corruption? Life time politicians have gamed the system so that the solution, elections, is not really a viable solution. Are the voters to blame for that? I'm beginning to think not. The idea that we get the government we deserve via elections is contingent on legitimate elections and I don't believe we have that.

There is an approximate ratio of a million to one civilian class versus political (Federal elected) class. They don't have the power they think they have and wouldn't have it if we didn't allow it.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 01:00:41 PM by AbaraXas »

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 01:05:07 PM »
They don't have the power they think they have and wouldn't have it if we didn't allow it.

How would (does) the civilian class prevent it if elections don't work the way they were intended. Power isn't just in numbers. Power is held and exercised by those who have the reins

Offline Bigun

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 02:31:24 PM »
Just wanted to raise this question for discussion. With approval ratings for congress below 10% and for the administration around 38%, how can our government be considered legitimate, and more importantly, what is the solution? I know in theory we have the ability to vote them out but do we really? The level of corruption virtually insures that a gov’t that is widely disapproved of remains in power. It seems impossible to clean house and meanwhile the country slides more and more.

"Government, in my humble opinion, should be formed to secure and to enlarge the exercise of the natural rights of its members; and every government, which has not this in view, as its principal object, is not a government of the legitimate kind. "

James Wilson, Lectures on Law, 1791

I agree with Justice Wilson and sadly must say that the answer to your question is no.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 02:33:27 PM by Bigun »

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Is our government legitimate?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 04:26:28 PM »
then the question becomes, what can be done about it? I'm reminded of something I saw recently that hit home. We are not a country with a government. We are a government with a country.


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