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Offline mystery-ak

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Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« on: December 11, 2013, 09:10:17 AM »
http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/pope-francis-the-choice/

Pope Francis, The Choice



With a focus on compassion, the leader of the Catholic Church has become a new voice of conscience. Managing Editor Nancy Gibbs explains why Francis is TIME's choice for Person of the Year 2013
By Nancy Gibbs Dec. 11, 2013

Once there was a boy so meek and modest, he was awarded a Most Humble badge. The next day, it was taken away because he wore it. Here endeth the lesson.

How do you practice humility from the most exalted throne on earth? Rarely has a new player on the world stage captured so much attention so quickly—young and old, faithful and cynical—as has Pope Francis. In his nine months in office, he has placed himself at the very center of the central conversations of our time: about wealth and poverty, fairness and justice, transparency, modernity, globalization, the role of women, the nature of marriage, the temptations of power.

(MORE: EL ELEGIDO: El Papa Francisco es la Persona del Año 2013 de TIME)

At a time when the limits of leadership are being tested in so many places, along comes a man with no army or weapons, no kingdom beyond a tight fist of land in the middle of Rome but with the immense wealth and weight of history behind him, to throw down a challenge. The world is getting smaller; individual voices are getting louder; technology is turning virtue viral, so his pulpit is visible to the ends of the earth. When he kisses the face of a disfigured man or washes the feet of a Muslim woman, the image resonates far beyond the boundaries of the Catholic Church.


The skeptics will point to the obstacles Francis faces in accomplishing much of anything beyond making casual believers feel better about the softer tone coming out of Rome while feeling free to ignore the harder substance. The Catholic Church is one of the oldest, largest and richest institutions on earth, with a following 1.2 billion strong, and change does not come naturally. At its best it inspires and instructs, helps and heals and calls the faithful to heed their better angels. But it has been weakened worldwide by scandal, corruption, a shortage of priests and a challenge, especially across the fertile mission fields of the southern hemisphere, from evangelical and Pentecostal rivals. In some quarters, core teachings on divorce and contraception are widely ignored and orthodoxy derided as obsolete. Vatican bureaucrats and clergy stand accused of infighting, graft, blackmail and an obsession with “small-minded rules,” as Francis puts it, rather than the vast possibilities of grace. Don’t just preach; listen, he says. Don’t scold; heal.

And yet in less than a year, he has done something remarkable: he has not changed the words, but he’s changed the music. Tone and temperament matter in a church built on the substance of symbols—bread and wine, body and blood—so it is a mistake to dismiss any Pope’s symbolic choices­ as gestures empty of the force of law. He released his first exhortation, an attack on “the idolatry of money,” just as Americans were contemplating the day set aside for gratitude and whether to spend it at the mall. This is a man with a sense of timing. He lives not in the papal palace surrounded by courtiers but in a spare hostel surrounded by priests. He prays all the time, even while waiting for the dentist. He has retired the papal Mercedes in favor of a scuffed-up Ford Focus. No red shoes, no gilded cross, just an iron one around his neck. When he rejects the pomp and the privilege, releases information on Vatican finances for the first time, reprimands a profligate German Archbishop, cold-calls strangers in distress, offers to baptize the baby of a divorced woman whose married lover wanted her to abort it, he is doing more than modeling mercy and ­transparency. He is ­embracing complexity and acknowledging the risk that a church obsessed with its own rights and righteousness could inflict more wounds than it heals. Asked why he seems uninterested in waging a culture war, he refers to the battlefield. The church is a field hospital, he says. Our first duty is to tend to the wounded. You don’t ask a bleeding man about his cholesterol level.


This focus on compassion, along with a general aura of merriment not always associated with princes of the church, has made Francis something of a rock star. More than 3 million people turned out to see him on Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro last summer, the crowds in St. Peter’s Square are ecstatic, and the souvenirs are selling fast. Francesco is the most popular male baby name in Italy. Churches report a “Francis effect” of lapsed Catholics returning to Mass and confession, though anecdotes are no substitute for hard evidence, and surveys of U.S. Catholics, at least, see little change in practice thus far. But the fascination with Francis even outside his flock gives him an opportunity that his predecessor, Benedict XVI, never had—to magnify the message of the church and its power to do great good.

The giddy embrace of the secular press makes Francis suspect among traditionalists who fear he buys popularity at the price of a watered-down faith. He has deftly leveraged the media’s fascination to draw attention to everything from his prayers for peace in Syria to his pointed attack on trickle-down economics, which inspired Jesse Jackson to compare him to Martin Luther King Jr. and Rush Limbaugh to wonder whether he’s a Marxist. When you are a media celebrity, every word you speak is dissected, as are those you choose not to speak. Why has he not said more about the priest sex-abuse scandal? ask victims’ advocates. (Just this month, he set up a commission to address the abuse of children by priests.) Why does he not talk more about the sanctity of life? ask conservatives, who note that in his exhortation, abortion is mentioned once, mercy 32 times. Francis both affirms traditional teachings on sexuality and warns that the church has become distracted by them. He attacks priests who won’t baptize children born out of wedlock for their “rigorous and hypocritical neo-clericalism.” He declares that God “has redeemed all of us … not just Catholics. Everyone, even atheists.” He posed with environmental activists holding an antifracking T-shirt and called on politicians and business leaders to be “protectors of creation.”


None of which makes him a liberal—he also says the all-male priesthood is not subject to debate, nor is abortion, nor is the definition of marriage. But his focus on the poor and the fact that the world’s poorest 50% control barely 1% of its wealth unsettles those who defend capitalism as the most successful antipoverty program in history. You could argue that he is Teddy Roosevelt protecting capitalism from its own excesses or he is simply saying what Popes before him have said, that Jesus calls us to care for the least among us—only he’s saying it in a way that people seem to be hearing differently. And that may be especially important coming from the first Pope from the New World. A century ago, two-thirds of Catholics lived in Europe; now fewer than a quarter do, and how he is heard in countries where being gay is a crime and educating women for leadership roles is a heresy may have the power to transform cultures in which Catholicism is a growing, even potentially liberating force.

These days it is bracing to hear a leader say anything that annoys anyone. Now liberals and conservatives alike face a choice as they listen to a new voice of conscience: Which matters more, that this charismatic leader is saying things they think need to be said or that he is also saying things they’d rather not hear?

The heart is a strong muscle; he’s proposing a rigorous exercise plan. And in a very short time, a vast, global, ecumenical audience has shown a hunger to follow him. For pulling the papacy out of the palace and into the streets, for committing the world’s largest church to confronting its deepest needs and for balancing judgment with mercy, Pope Francis is TIME’s 2013 Person of the Year.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 09:11:32 AM by mystery-ak »

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2013, 10:29:09 AM »
As a man who leads by example, Francis may be the best pope in our lifetimes.

As a crafter of church dogma, however, he is a dangerous socialist who puts too much faith in secular government. It appears that instead of winning souls to God, he is trying to move God to the souls of lefty hipsters by emphasizing the sowing of envy among the poor and ignoring social issues.

His attempts will, in the end, fail. God will not be mocked.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2013, 11:40:05 AM »
As a man who leads by example, Francis may be the best pope in our lifetimes.

As a crafter of church dogma, however, he is a dangerous socialist who puts too much faith in secular government. It appears that instead of winning souls to God, he is trying to move God to the souls of lefty hipsters by emphasizing the sowing of envy among the poor and ignoring social issues.

His attempts will, in the end, fail. God will not be mocked.

Pope Francis does not "craft" Catholic dogma.  He explains it, demonstrates it, puts faith into action.   

Your comment about "sowing envy" makes no sense and Francis is not "ignoring" social issues.  Everybody knows where the Catholic Church stands on social issues.

Is caring for the poor not a social issue?  Jesus made it the NUMBER ONE determinant for who and who would not enter heaven.  Read Matthew 25.
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Offline raml

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2013, 12:39:18 PM »
He said everyone will go to heaven which is contrary to God's teaching. As popes go he is the worst the Catholic church has ever had. He certainly doesn't sound like a Christian. Not saying he isn't a good man just saying what he says goes against the bible and that is what counts not his personal opinions. A leader of a Christian church has no right to say what he says when it goes against God's word he is suppose to lead people to the church not tell them it is ok to be a heathen.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2013, 12:52:45 PM »
He said everyone will go to heaven which is contrary to God's teaching. As popes go he is the worst the Catholic church has ever had. He certainly doesn't sound like a Christian. Not saying he isn't a good man just saying what he says goes against the bible and that is what counts not his personal opinions. A leader of a Christian church has no right to say what he says when it goes against God's word he is suppose to lead people to the church not tell them it is ok to be a heathen.

Francis never said everyone will go to heaven.  That's just a flat out lie.

As Popes go, he is changing the image of the Catholic Church, which needed changing.  Some of these tight-assed evangelical churches could do with a makeover too.

Nothing he's saying "goes against the bible" (what a ludicrous charge!!), nor is it against "God's Word." 

You just don't like the Catholic Church, so none of what you say is a surprise.
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Offline raml

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 02:01:18 PM »
I have liked popes of the past so once again your saying I don't like the Catholic church which I was raised in and went to school with for 12 years is crazy. I doubt you know what you are talking about anyway sinkspur just seeing your answers here shows me you know very little about the Christian faith and evangelicals should never change they are trying to live God's word unlike most so called Christians today. You can't update God's word it is always the same no matter what century we live in. Have you ever even read the bible? It is not something many Catholics ever do at least not when I was attending that church and in contact with many Catholics. Knowing the Kennedy's, Robert's and Pelosi's of this world are Catholic gives an insight into what the church has turned into.


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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 02:11:18 PM »
I think most of  our Catholic friends here would agree that  Billy Graham would have been far more deserving.  The Message To America video he did this year at the age of 95 is a must see.   

I'm not going to use this space to criticize your Pope, but if you want to focus on life-time achievements of bringing people to Christ and turning lost lives around the Reverend Billy Graham I think far surpasses everyone on the planet of any denomination. 


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bba2Dqaw6SI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bba2Dqaw6SI</a>
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 02:27:44 PM by NavyCanDo »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 02:20:30 PM »
I think even our Catholic friends here would agree that  Billy Graham would have been far more deserving. The Message To America video he did this year at the age of 95 is a must see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bba2Dqaw6SI


Billy Graham is a great human being and a national treasure but had no effect whatsoever on world events this year. 
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 02:25:47 PM »
I have liked popes of the past so once again your saying I don't like the Catholic church which I was raised in and went to school with for 12 years is crazy. I doubt you know what you are talking about anyway sinkspur just seeing your answers here shows me you know very little about the Christian faith and evangelicals should never change they are trying to live God's word unlike most so called Christians today. You can't update God's word it is always the same no matter what century we live in. Have you ever even read the bible? It is not something many Catholics ever do at least not when I was attending that church and in contact with many Catholics. Knowing the Kennedy's, Robert's and Pelosi's of this world are Catholic gives an insight into what the church has turned into.

Once again, you reflect an anti-Catholic bias that colors your view of the Church and everything about it and everyone in it.  The Church is the Church; because it has sinners in it does not mean it has "turned into" what you think it's turned into. 

To answer your question, yes, I have read the Bible and studied it extensively. 
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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2013, 03:20:27 PM »
I think most of  our Catholic friends here would agree that  Billy Graham would have been far more deserving.  The Message To America video he did this year at the age of 95 is a must see.   

I'm not going to use this space to criticize your Pope, but if you want to focus on life-time achievements of bringing people to Christ and turning lost lives around the Reverend Billy Graham I think far surpasses everyone on the planet of any denomination. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bba2Dqaw6SI


Think about Time and who they choose for their men of the year...Hitler was one, Mussolini, also.. I don't think being named man of the year is  a compliment unless you're a lefty.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2013, 03:25:53 PM »
The purpose of religion is teach the congregation... no matter the church .. the word of GOD... and HE does not specify a specific faith we all should belong to in order to receive his word.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2013, 07:17:58 PM »
The purpose of religion is teach the congregation... no matter the church .. the word of GOD... and HE does not specify a specific faith we all should belong to in order to receive his word.

I'll have to disagree with you a bit on this one. The  "purpose of religion" is to establish and enforce the Law.  The old Testament Jews are a great example of religious people  living under the Law.  God wants his Church (not a religion) to teach the Good News of the Gospel, - that the love that was poured out on Calvary freed us from "the law" and from death.

As for all the different denominations, and Catholic vs. Protestant, evangelical vs. charismatic, and Mormon's vs. everybody - I'd rather not enter the fray. I found a church that I feel at home in, I like the music, I enjoy the worship, and I enjoy the pastor's message, and most importantly I made sure the fundamental beliefs of Christianity are the foundation.   I wish we would all choose the church we go to in the same way. So many people put denomination first.
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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2013, 09:18:58 PM »
[[ Pope Francis does not "craft" Catholic dogma.  He explains it, demonstrates it, puts faith into action. ]]

He is a liberal leftist right out of the "liberation theology" textbook.

He represents as much of a fall for the church from the era of Karol Józef Wojtyla as does the current president in comparison to Ronald Reagan...

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2013, 09:27:12 PM »
Billy Graham is a great human being and a national treasure but had no effect whatsoever on world events this year.

Seconded. His Message to America is inspiring though and well worth keeping!

Though in terms of effect on world events, Pope Benedict may have been a better fit. His Holiness certainly revolutionized the Church with one simple act!
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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 09:42:49 PM »
Think about Time and who they choose for their men of the year...Hitler was one, Mussolini, also.. I don't think being named man of the year is  a compliment unless you're a lefty.
The Person of the Year is simply a measure of influence, not necessarily good or bad. In this case, the pontiff was indeed probably the most influential person in the world this year.

Especially compared to the competition. Vlad Putin may have been the only real competition and he wasn't even on the final ballot. Ed Snowden wasn't quite at that level-- a media darling more than anything (and it's no small wonder why openly gay Glenn Greenwald is outraged that a Catholic got the award instead). Edith Windsor was a replaceable pawn for the lone event she was notable for, an event that was bound to happen eventually. If Ted Cruz had any influence, the ACA would have been repealed by now. (Not a shot against Cruz, but more against Harry Reid, how crooked he is and how stupid the American people were for getting suckered into Todd Akin.) Finally, Miley Cyrus... people disgrace themselves every month, that doesn't earn them the title of Person of the Year.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 09:48:04 PM »
The Person of the Year is simply a measure of influence, not necessarily good or bad. In this case, the pontiff was indeed probably the most influential person in the world this year.

Especially compared to the competition. Vlad Putin may have been the only real competition and he wasn't even on the final ballot. Ed Snowden wasn't quite at that level-- a media darling more than anything (and it's no small wonder why openly gay Glenn Greenwald is outraged that a Catholic got the award instead). Edith Windsor was a replaceable pawn for the lone event she was notable for, an event that was bound to happen eventually. If Ted Cruz had any influence, the ACA would have been repealed by now. (Not a shot against Cruz, but more against Harry Reid, how crooked he is and how stupid the American people were for getting suckered into Todd Akin.) Finally, Miley Cyrus... people disgrace themselves every month, that doesn't earn them the title of Person of the Year.

Did you know Snowden came in #2??? (yep #2)  and when you are on a the same list as Miley Cyrus  :thud:
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Pope Francis, The Choice....Person of the Year
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 10:03:15 PM »
[[ Pope Francis does not "craft" Catholic dogma.  He explains it, demonstrates it, puts faith into action. ]]

He is a liberal leftist right out of the "liberation theology" textbook.

He represents as much of a fall for the church from the era of Karol Józef Wojtyla as does the current president in comparison to Ronald Reagan...

Which "liberation" theologian have you read?  I've read several.  Name one you've read.  I can bet you haven't read any, which is why you are dead wrong about Francis.

Can you name one dogma of the Church that Francis has compromised?  Or is it the fact that he wears black shoes instead of red shoes that makes you despise him so much? 
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