Author Topic: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples  (Read 1268 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cincinnatus

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,514
Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« on: December 09, 2013, 05:04:30 PM »
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 05:06:43 PM »
Orders? He orders this individual to do what he has chosen not to do? What kind of country are we living in?

Forcing someone to violate their moral standards is not discriminatory, however.

How I loathe these people.


Businesses are going to have to learn to start giving really crappy product/service instead of objecting directly.

Oops...   :whistle:


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 21,883
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
    • The place where argument addicts can go
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 05:24:14 PM »
How is the baker case different, than a small retailer saying no to blacks who want to shop at his store?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.ďż˝  Abe Lincoln

Offline Chieftain

  • AMF, YOYO
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,633
  • Your what hurts??
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 05:28:20 PM »
Orders? He orders this individual to do what he has chosen not to do? What kind of country are we living in?

Forcing someone to violate their moral standards is not discriminatory, however.

How I loathe these people.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/12/06/judge-orders-colorado-cake-maker-to-serve-gay-couples/

I agree...the founders would be astonished that any of this is taking place in the country they founded.  Franklin would be saying "I told you so!!"


Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 14,243
  • Do NOT go in there.
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 05:45:13 PM »
How is the baker case different, than a small retailer saying no to blacks who want to shop at his store?
Well, for one, you can't choose your skin color. Partnering with someone is a choice in itself.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 21,883
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
    • The place where argument addicts can go
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 05:59:14 PM »
Well, for one, you can't choose your skin color. Partnering with someone is a choice in itself.
Then I'll use a different example. How about discriminating based on religion?

What if a baker said no, to a Jewish holiday cake?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.ďż˝  Abe Lincoln

Offline LambChop

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 245
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 06:21:22 PM »
Then I'll use a different example. How about discriminating based on religion?

What if a baker said no, to a Jewish holiday cake?

Or baptism?  We may be the majority now, but in the not so far future? 

Offline mountaineer

  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 39,202
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 06:23:53 PM »
The countdown begins to when one of these "civil rights" commissions orders a Christian church to accomodate homosexuals' "wedding" ceremony. The First Amendment will not matter. Gay rights trump the Constitution.
“My god! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy? I confess I had no idea of it myself.” Jefferson writing to Madison on America in 1785 while in Paris.

Offline Atomic Cow

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 18,235
  • High Yield Minion
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 06:28:58 PM »
The countdown begins to when one of these "civil rights" commissions orders a Christian church to accomodate homosexuals' "wedding" ceremony. The First Amendment will not matter. Gay rights trump the Constitution.

The end game has always been the outlawing of Christianity.  The left doesn't care about the bleep.  They're a means to an end.  Once the Christians are gone, the left will turn on the bleep like rabid dogs.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Cincinnatus

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,514
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 06:33:39 PM »
How is the baker case different, than a small retailer saying no to blacks who want to shop at his store?...What if a baker said no, to a Jewish holiday cake?

The difference is freedom. If I choose not to employ my labor and materials for whatever reason in a world that is truly free that is my right regardless of what you and administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer may feel about it. Just who are you and he to tell me I must do otherwise?

In addition, however, this case and others sprouting about involve freedom of conscience, a right at the very least implied in the 1st Amendment. Where are "homosexual rights" found in the Constitution and from whence arises the power that you and this judge have to order me to violate my own principles?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 06:34:44 PM by Cincinnatus »
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Millee

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,809
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 06:37:09 PM »
Then I'll use a different example. How about discriminating based on religion?

What if a baker said no, to a Jewish holiday cake?

What if he did??? 

Does a Jewish baker have to make a Adolph Hitler cake???  Does a gay baker have to bake a cake for the Westborough Baptist Church??? 

This baker in CO doesn't make Halloween themed cakes either, but he will make Fall themed ones.  Should the Wiccans be able to sue him and force him to?  Where does it end???

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 06:38:30 PM »
The end game has always been the outlawing of Christianity.  The left doesn't care about the bleep.  They're a means to an end.  Once the Christians are gone, the left will turn on the bleep like rabid dogs.

They already do.

I have a fair number of homosexual friends and acquaintances. A few transgender friends. (Big deal, I'm also friends with strippers, prostitutes, and body builders). We keep in touch in person, by email and on facebook. By far the worst insults, slurs and vitriol they get that I have seen are from the left.

Fag and gay are go to insults for youths - not exactly welcoming, is it?
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 09:56:49 PM »
Does a gay baker have to bake a cake for the Westborough Baptist Church??? 

Of course they do, but I certainly wouldn't eat it.  Which gets back to my original point above.

You can bet the lefties would do it... and laugh about it...


« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 09:57:12 PM by GourmetDan »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 50,712
  • TBR Illuminati
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 10:03:50 PM »
There is a very, very simple solution to this:  the baker and his family should vote with their feet by closing up shop, selling the house, and moving to a state where they'll be respected.

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 10:06:19 PM »
There is a very, very simple solution to this:  the baker and his family should vote with their feet by closing up shop, selling the house, and moving to a state where they'll be respected.

Actually, the same could be said for the gay couple...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 50,712
  • TBR Illuminati
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2013, 10:07:20 PM »
Actually, the same could be said for the gay couple...




Of course, but the gay couple isn't on the wrong end of the regulatory gun.  The comparison is inapposite.

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2013, 10:15:18 PM »
Of course, but the gay couple isn't on the wrong end of the regulatory gun.  The comparison is inapposite.

Yes, and slavery was once legal and abolitionists should have just accepted that...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 50,712
  • TBR Illuminati
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2013, 10:22:04 PM »
Yes, and slavery was once legal and abolitionists should have just accepted that...




You don't get it, do you.  The fact of the matter is this:  a state government has all the power it needs to pass, and enforce, laws of this sort.  Such a law violates no provision of the US Constitution.  Or are we now going to toss aside those states' rights principles we've been insisting on?

The comparison to slavery is particularly egregious.  A slave had no choice but to serve; a slave was not free to quit, enter a new line of business, or move to a different state.

So, since Colorado is enforcing a rule it has sufficient power to enforce - even if the rule is stupid and objectionable - the baker has two choices:  buckle down and follow the law, or move to a more inviting community.  That, or he could just pay the fines.

Offline AbaraXas

  • Enemy of the State
  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,148
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2013, 10:30:49 PM »
Then I'll use a different example. How about discriminating based on religion?

What if a baker said no, to a Jewish holiday cake?

He can say he doesn't have the skill to create a specific pattern nor stock the decoration for XYZ holiday.  He may not have a Steve and Steve wedding cake topper. Does this now mean he is forced to carry a product he doesn't normally carry?  Should he be required to purchase and offer for sale this cake topper in order to meet the 'order'?


Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2013, 10:32:25 PM »
You don't get it, do you.  The fact of the matter is this:  a state government has all the power it needs to pass, and enforce, laws of this sort.  Such a law violates no provision of the US Constitution.  Or are we now going to toss aside those states' rights principles we've been insisting on?

The comparison to slavery is particularly egregious.  A slave had no choice but to serve; a slave was not free to quit, enter a new line of business, or move to a different state.

So, since Colorado is enforcing a rule it has sufficient power to enforce - even if the rule is stupid and objectionable - the baker has two choices:  buckle down and follow the law, or move to a more inviting community.  That, or he could just pay the fines.

No you don't get it.  The fact of the matter is that, using your own argument, slavery was once legal and abolitionists should have just accepted it.

Clearly you can rationalize anything, but that's no big deal.  Anybody can rationalize anything, and often do just that...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Cincinnatus

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,514
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2013, 12:29:09 AM »
Well, let's see. According to Ocander:

The fact of the matter is this:  a state government has all the power it needs to pass, and enforce, laws of this sort.  Such a law violates no provision of the US Constitution.  Or are we now going to toss aside those states' rights principles we've been insisting on?

I wonder how he squares that with the Constitution of the State of Colorado, Article II, section 4.

Quote
Section 4. Religious freedom. The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever hereafter be guaranteed; and no person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his opinions concerning religion; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness or justify practices inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the state. No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of worship, religious sect or denomination against his consent. Nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship.


Or maybe Article II, section 3:

Quote
Section 3. Inalienable rights. All persons have certain natural, essential and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; of acquiring, possessing and protecting property; and of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness

http://law.justia.com/constitution/colorado/cnart2.html

Yep, no doubt about it. Homosexual demands trump both the United States' Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Colorado.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Online Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,576
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Judge Orders Colorado Cake Maker To Serve Gay Couples
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2013, 12:43:33 AM »
So, if an atheist baker refuses to sell a cake for a Jewish wedding, is that religious discrimination?


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf