Author Topic: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'  (Read 569 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/hagel-full-us-retreat-afghanistan-very-real-possibility

Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
December 9, 2013 - 7:30 AM
By Susan Jones

(CNSNews.com) - Although he didn't call it a "retreat," Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said that all American troops will have to leave Afghanistan in 2014 unless Afghan President Hamid Karzai signs a security agreement with the United States.

"Well, you can use any term you want, 'retreat' or 'not renewing our efforts here post-2014.' You can say it any way you want. But what I'm saying is, unless we have the security of an agreement to protect our forces, then we'll have no choice. We'll -- we will not be able to stay," Hagel told CBS News State Department correspondent Margaret Brennan.

The interview aired Sunday on "Face the Nation."


Hagel said removing all troops from Afghanistan is "a very real possibility, because if we don't have a bilateral security agreement...that means we can't protect our forces that would be here after 2014; no international partners will come."

"Did the U.S. miscalculate in thinking he (Karzai) could be a partner?" Brennan asked Hagel.

"We were surprised," Hagel said.

Although Afghanistan's tribal elders -- the loya jirga -- overwhelmingly approved the bilateral security agreement (BSA), Karzai is now making additional demands on the United States, refusing to sign the agreement until they are met.

"Yes, it was disappointing. Yes, it was surprising," Hagel said. "I think the more he involves himself, President Karzai, and listens to his people -- which leaders must do -- I hope he will come to the right decision on this, because we need that bilateral security agreement signed for our own planning, for our own purposes, as well as our international partners', because if there's uncertainty -- if the president of this country doesn't make a decision on this -- then, you're right, there will be some questions as to how and what we do from here."

Prompted by the terror attacks on the United States, President George w. Bush sent American soldiers to Afghanistan in October 2001 to clear the country of al Qaida and Taliban terrorists, many of whom fled to neighboring Pakistan.

Since then, more than 21-hundred American troops have died in the Afghanistan war, sometimes by the Afghan security forces they're trying to train. The United States has poured billions of dollars into the undeveloped country, building infrastructure and providing aid to the people.

Brennan asked Hagel about the war's huge costs:

"American people look at this, all the blood, all the treasure," she said. "They hear things that Hamid Karzai says about adding new demands...before he signs a security agreement, just a refusal to comply. I mean, he's not even here in the country while you, the secretary of defense, are in country. Why not? You know, why can't Americans look at that and say it's just not worth it?"

"Well, I think that is a legitimate question that -- we should ask that question, is it worth it or not worth it. It needs to be asked, and especially in a representative government, a democracy, those questions must be asked. So it is now up to President Karzai to make a decision."

'Not my role to pressure presidents'

In Afghanistan on Saturday, Hagel told reporters, "I never asked for a meeting with President Karzai. That was not the purpose of my trip, never suggested it in any way. I never received an invitation to meet with him. I didn't expect a meeting with him. As I have noted -- explained, this trip is about the troops."

"Why wouldn't you want to meet with Karzai?" another reporter asked hagel on Saturday. "I mean you came all the way to Afghanistan. He holds the key to getting the BSA signed. Why wouldn't you want to use this opportunity to kind of cajole him and pressure him, to seek out his concerns and kind of come to -- at least get closer to a deal to make this happen?"

"Well, let me answer it this way," Hagel said. "I say again, this trip to Afghanistan was planned weeks ago. And it was planned for the sole purpose of working with our troops, reaching out to our troops, thanking our troops, wishing them happy holidays, acknowledging the work they did. So that's number one.

"Second, there is not much I could add in a meeting with President Karzai to what has already been said two weeks ago. The national security advisor to the president of the United States, Ambassador Rice, was here and spent a lot of time with President Karzai. And I don't think there was much left that was ambiguous about what we want to see go forward.

"But even more to the point, I don't think pressure on -- coming from the United States or more pressure is going to be helpful in persuading President Karzai to sign a bilateral security agreement. The people of Afghanistan, through the body that he empaneled, the Loya Jirga, spoke rather plainly and clearly and dramatically about the interest that they believe for this country in going forward.

"So that's not my -- that's not my role to pressure presidents."


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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 12:53:59 PM »
After the 1972 Munich Olympic incident, Israel chased down the perps, and killed them.

In half a generation, 2100 Americans have lost their lives in a misdirected, futile exercise which leaves the US no better off.

Why didn't we level Kabul? Why didn't we assassinate the families of the terrorists? Where is mullah Omar?

 

Offline flowers

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 02:26:11 PM »
the day we leave Afghanistan, Karzi isn't long for this world.I am sorry to say I won't be upset with him leaving this planet :smokin:


Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 07:00:47 PM »
What a waste of blood and treasure.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 08:55:06 PM »
[[ What a waste of blood and treasure. ]]

Right you are.

The enemy was never "Afghanistan". Nor was it even the Taliban, or al Qaeda.

The "enemy" is something else -- an entire cult. We can't kill the enemy's leader, since he died around 1,400 years ago. But they still follow him devoutly, per his instruction book.

When we first entered Afghanistan back around 2001, the enemy was everywhere there. When we finally leave -- hopefully soon -- that same enemy will STILL BE THERE, still everywhere.

Who won?

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 06:37:57 PM »
[[ What a waste of blood and treasure. ]]

Right you are.

The enemy was never "Afghanistan". Nor was it even the Taliban, or al Qaeda.

The "enemy" is something else -- an entire cult. We can't kill the enemy's leader, since he died around 1,400 years ago. But they still follow him devoutly, per his instruction book.

When we first entered Afghanistan back around 2001, the enemy was everywhere there. When we finally leave -- hopefully soon -- that same enemy will STILL BE THERE, still everywhere.

Who won?

Both the Japs and Gerries had "instruction books" but we fought and won unconditional surrender; something we don't even discuss let alone believe in these days.

We crown the general a superstar if he gets a PhD. and recommends "surges."

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 09:40:23 PM »
[[ Both the Japs and Gerries had "instruction books" but we fought and won unconditional surrender; something we don't even discuss let alone believe in these days. ]]

Your point is well taken.

But what we've done in the "War on Terror" (or whatever else you wish to call it) is akin to going into Germany in 1945, destroying the Luftwaffe and Wermacht, and then leaving with the Nazis still holding the reins of power.

We won in Germany and Japan because in both cases we not only physically destroyed those countries and defeated their armies, but more importantly we destroyed (not simply chastened, but obliterated) the ideologies that turned those countries into our enemy in the first place.

We unabashedly "de-Nazified" Germany after World War II.

If I'm not mistaken, we also forced the Japanese emperor to admit that he was not God, all-but wiped out the fanatical religous beliefs which contributed to Japan's agressiveness, and literally wrote them an entire new constitution, handed it to them, and told them, "this is how you're going to live". It worked.

We had no qualms about meddling with religious beliefs in Japan to impose a peace after WW2.

How would you translate this, to what must be done with islam, if The West wishes to survive?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:03:47 AM by Fishrrman »

Online Oceander

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 09:51:46 PM »
[[ Both the Japs and Gerries had "instruction books" but we fought and won unconditional surrender; something we don't even discuss let alone believe in these days. ]]

Your point is well taken.

But what we've done in the "War on Terror" (or whatever else you wish to call it) is akin to going into Germany in 1945, destroying the Luftwaffe and Wermacht, and then leaving with the Nazis still holding the reins of power.

We won in Germany and Japan because in both cases we not only physically destroyed those countries and defeated their armies, but more importantly we destroyed (not simply chastened, but obliterated) the ideologies that turned those countries into our enemy in the first place.

We unabashedly "de-Nazified" Germany after World War II.

If I'm not mistaken, we also forced the Japanese emperor to admit that he was not God, all-but wiped out the fanatical religous beliefs which contributed to Japans' agressiveness, and literally wrote them an entire new constitution, handed it to them, and told them, "this is how you're going to live". It worked.

We had no qualms about meddling with religious beliefs Japan to impose a peace after WW2.

How would you translate this, to what must be done with islam, if The West wishes to survive?

So, please identify the muslim power structure we can attack?  Where is the muslim version of the Japanese Emperor?  Where is the muslim version of the defined, vertical power structure of the Nazis?

Are you prepared to attack every single muslim country in the world to de-muslimize them?

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 10:10:36 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/u-39-nowhere-near-39-decision-pull-troops-233143760.html


U.S. 'nowhere near' decision to pull all troops out of Afghanistan
Reuters
By Missy Ryan 3 hours ago

 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration is 'nowhere near' deciding to pull out all troops from Afghanistan at the end of 2014, a top U.S. official said on Tuesday, despite mounting frustration President Hamid Karzai has not signed a security deal allowing the military to remain there after next year.

"I have no doubt that the (bilateral security agreement with Afghanistan) ultimately will be concluded," Ambassador James Dobbins, U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, told the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

While Dobbins said that an ongoing delay to finalizing the deal - which U.S. officials had hoped Karzai would sign weeks ago - would impose "damages and costs" on Afghans, he said the Obama administration was not on the verge of abandoning its effort to extend its troop presence.

"We're nowhere near a decision that would involve our departing Afghanistan altogether," he said.

The administration has been urging Karzai to sign the bilateral security agreement (BSA) it negotiated with Karzai's government, which would permit it to keep troops in Afghanistan beyond the end of 2014 to support Afghan forces and conduct limited counterterrorism activities.

After Afghan elders and politicians endorsed the pact last month, Karzai surprised Washington by introducing new conditions for his signature.

If no deal can be finalized, Washington says it will withdraw its entire force of 47,000 troops in a little over a year. Other NATO nations are likely to follow suit.

The absence of foreign troops would likely dampen donor nations' willingness to fund Afghan troops and provide civilian aid.

"My judgment is no troops, no aid, or almost no aid," Dobbins said. If security conditions were to worsen sharply, he said, United States could conceivably even close its embassy in Kabul.

There are fears that the Taliban and other militants ultimately could regain strength, the central government could founder, and Afghanistan be plunged anew into civil war.

The possibility of a full withdrawal of foreign forces is already having a dangerous impact on Afghanistan, Dobbins said, as people pull money out of the country, property prices fall and the Afghan currency slips in value.

Larry Sampler, a senior official at the U.S. Agency for International Development, told senators that it would be more difficult to find ways to carry out promised civilian assistance for impoverished Afghanistan without a security deal and a foreign troop presence.

'COLONIAL' PRESSURE

As U.S. frustrations with Karzai become increasingly public, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel made a surprise visit to Kabul last weekend. But in an unusual move, he did not meet with Karzai.

In an interview with French newspaper Le Monde, Karzai accused the United States of applying 'colonial' pressure on him to sign the pact and said Dobbins suggested during a recent visit to Kabul that without a security agreement there would be no peace.

The Obama administration has not yet said precisely how many troops it would leave in Afghanistan after 2014 if a deal is finalized that would fight a Taliban that remains a potent, if diminished, force,

Senator John McCain, a Republican, pressed Dobbins for clarity on how many soldiers would be left in Afghanistan post-2014, and said announcing future troops levels might persuade Karzai to sign.

"By not doing so you're making a very, very serious mistake," McCain said.

He said the Obama administration risked repeating the course of events in Iraq, where U.S. officials halted efforts to seal a security deal with Iraq in late 2011, prompting the full withdrawal of U.S. troops at the end of that year.

Violence in Iraq is now at its highest level in at least five years, and more than 8,000 people have been killed this year, the United Nations says.

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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 11:42:19 PM »
[[ Are you prepared to attack every single muslim country in the world to de-muslimize them? ]]

Are you prepared to stand by while creeping islam, through jihad and subversion, emerges dominant over The West?

Offline raml

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2013, 12:10:33 AM »
As we have seen communism or socialism whichever you care to call it is now destroying us from within and that is what Islam will do if we let it. No one needs to weaken our power Obama is doing that right now and no one is doing a thing but watching and complaining which serves no useful purpose. We are losing the biggest war we have ever been in because of apathy right here at home. If things don't change in a short period of time it will be to late and we will all be in hell on earth together. I use to always be an optimist but not anymore I see very few things in the news these days to make me feel that there is anything to be happy about happening in this country.

Offline EC

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Re: Hagel: Full U.S. Retreat From Afghanistan 'A Very Real Possibility'
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2013, 02:06:47 AM »
Wonder if a "Full US retreat" includes pulling all funding as well. If not, it should.
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