Author Topic: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers  (Read 585 times)

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SPQR

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Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« on: December 04, 2013, 12:02:48 AM »
Israel's defence ministry is evaluating a plan that could allow it to lease Boeing 767-based KC-46A tankers as replacements for the converted Boeing 707s now used by its air force.

The evaluation is the most recent development in an ongoing effort to provide the Israeli air force with a modern in-flight refuelling capability. This has also involved the US government offering to supply three surplus KC-135Es worth around $200 million: a proposal the service responded to by saying it would only consider more capable R-model examples powered by CFM56 engines.

An Israeli source says a leasing model for the in-development KC-46A is being evaluated, and that "there are points to clarify" before a decision is made. Boeing's previous lease agreement, which enabled the UK Royal Air Force to operate an initial fleet of four C-17 strategic transports, is being used as the basic model for the evaluation, the source says.

Boeing and the US Air Force in August completed a critical design review for the KC-46A, with a first test example due to make its flight debut in mid-2014. The USAF plans to acquire 179 of the type to replace its oldest KC-135s.

Israel's current 707-based tankers were converted by Israel Aerospace Industries. Flightglobal's Ascend Online Fleets database records eight of the type as being in active use.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israel-considers-lease-model-for-kc-46a-tankers-393613/

Offline 240B

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 12:15:51 AM »
I would consider this carefully. I am not convinced that 'Hussein' is a friend of Israel. And even if he is, he can never be counted on. He is completely undependable as a friend or an enemy. He is erratic. IMO.


Just be careful with this guy.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.

SPQR

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 12:21:53 AM »
I would consider this carefully. I am not convinced that 'Hussein' is a friend of Israel. And even if he is, he can never be counted on. He is completely undependable as a friend or an enemy. He is erratic. IMO.


Just be careful with this guy.

I agree. But it seems that the Pentagon has this deal sealed. They also needed the State Departments nod for this deal.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:28:21 AM by SPQR »

Offline 240B

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 12:30:03 AM »
So let it be written,
so let it be done.


I have more faith in Bibi and the Iraelis, than fear of what is today, passes for what used to be America.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 12:30:43 AM »
I agree. But it seems that the Pentagon has this deal sealed. They also needed the State Departments nod for this deal.

They also needed the permission of the DSCA for this deal.DSCA is responsible for the effective policy, processes, training, and financial management necessary to execute security cooperation within the DoD.Section 36(b) of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) requires the President to give Congress advance written notification of the intent to sell defense articles, equipment and services
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:34:17 AM by SPQR »

Offline 240B

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 12:38:11 AM »
The Israelis have a history of refitting whatever they get from America.


You can send an F-16 to Israel, and there is no way to tell what they will make out of it. It will not be recognizable when they are done with whatever they get.


That is just how they do things over there.
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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 12:44:55 AM »
The Israelis have a history of refitting whatever they get from America.


You can send an F-16 to Israel, and there is no way to tell what they will make out of it. It will not be recognizable when they are done with whatever they get.


That is just how they do things over there.



I agree with you. As part of the purchase of their F-35 jets the Israelis were allowed to make "special modifications" to the planes. Lockeed complained but eventually relented. The South Koreans have also requested to make certain modifications to their F-35 deal.

Offline 240B

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 12:51:06 AM »
I have to stop talking about this. But, it is good to know you are out there. I respect what you have said here.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:51:30 AM by 240B »
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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 12:56:33 AM »
I have to stop talking about this. But, it is good to know you are out there. I respect what you have said here.

 :beer:

Offline EC

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 01:31:47 AM »
The Israelis have a history of refitting whatever they get from America.


You can send an F-16 to Israel, and there is no way to tell what they will make out of it. It will not be recognizable when they are done with whatever they get.


That is just how they do things over there.

That they do! Not blaming them either - their home grown avionics are at least as good (if not far better) than the fitted systems, especially since most exports are deliberately degraded in performance for a "just in case" scenario.
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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 01:34:58 AM »
That they do! Not blaming them either - their home grown avionics are at least as good (if not far better) than the fitted systems, especially since most exports are deliberately degraded in performance for a "just in case" scenario.

Their F-35I is going to be hot.Israel will be first international customer to the F-35. Look at the options they are including:

New Opportunities for Israeli Systems

The airframe, subsystems and components for the current models of the F-35 – the land based F-35A, Carrier model F-35C and Short TakeOff Vertical Landing (STOL) F-35B are all contracted, but some of the weapons systems are yet to be decided, and open future opportunities for the Israelis. Among these are the air/air missiles – the types currently considered for the F-35 are the U.S. made AIM-9X, and AMRAAM, and European ASRAAM and Meteor. The Israelis could opt for the Stunner missile (Python 6) under development under a joint venture between Rafael and Raytheon.

The Stunner will provide a common missile that could replace both AIM-9X and AMRAAM with a single missile. The missile is currently in development a surface-to-air missile, due for first deployment in 2013. Its specifications have already been set to enable carriage and operation by the F-35. Another weapon considered for the aircraft is the Spice guided weapon. These weapons will be instrumental for the stealth fighter's 'first day' missions, where the networked-stealth fighters are expected to be penetrate and destroy enemy air defenses, paving the way for other strike fighters in their missions against airfields, air defenses, and enemy fighters, to achieve air supremacy. Currently RAFAEL is offering a 2,000 lb and 1,000 lb versions of the Spice, all these weapons can be fitted within the F-35's internal weapons bay. The 500 lb version of the Spice, currently in development, could introduce multiple weapon carriage capability for the F-35, along with a full load of air-to-air missiles.

Communications systems will introduce another opportunity for the Israeli industry. To integrate within the Israeli command and control system the F-35I will have to carry suitable datalinks, satellite communications terminals and air to ground radios, to ensure integration with the IAF network centric system. The IAF may have to settle with the baseline systems, designed to maintain the aircraft low-observability. Yet the integration of local protocols and waveforms is mandatory for the long run, either on individual aircraft or over manned or unmanned support systems which could also offer interesting solutions for air forces facing the same challenge.

Another opportunity for the F-35 community is the employment of a new escort jammer developed by Israel. Israeli EW systems are often offered with full access to the Electronic Warfare techniques generator, while U.S. jammers often rely on highly classified operating modes restricting the export of such systems. If the Israeli stand-off jammer can be adapted to the F-35 stealth platform, it could provide an important capability that could be highly attractive for many F-35 users. The standoff 'escort' jammer is under development as part of collaboration between IAI/Elta and Rafael could, could be adapted for the F-35, it could offer an attractive capability which is currently unavailable for export.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:44:18 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 01:57:13 AM »
I will say this for Israeli comms systems - they are unbeatable and just getting better and better all the time. Lightweight, massive range, nigh on unbreakable encryption, multiphasic channels making locking on virtually impossible. They'd be stupid NOT to use their own systems.

When the USA pulled the plug on the shuttle, where do you think a hell of a lot of Mission Control engineers and staff wound up being hired? The IAI and the IDF had a field day recruiting the best of them.
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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 02:28:21 AM »
I will say this for Israeli comms systems - they are unbeatable and just getting better and better all the time. Lightweight, massive range, nigh on unbreakable encryption, multiphasic channels making locking on virtually impossible. They'd be stupid NOT to use their own systems.


Quote
“The advantage of this F-35 for the Israel air force is not about higher performance or a specific weapon capacity, but the ability to understand the battlespace, identify, locate targets from standoff range and neutralize them before being engaged,” Brig. Gen. Hagi Topolanski, Chief of Air Staff and Deputy Israeli Air Force Commander, told Aviation Week in a recent interview . “These capabilities are meaningful in dealing with modern fighter aircraft and advanced SAMs. While the F-35 has its limitations, it can take on and win against any threat currently available in-theater. Its ability to independently collect, assess and process a battlespace situational picture, and strike those targets by itself, from standoff range, is providing a qualitative edge over anything the enemy can confront with, in the foreseeable future.”

Offline EC

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 02:48:05 AM »
Quote
Its ability to independently collect, assess and process a battlespace situational picture, and strike those targets by itself, from standoff range, is providing a qualitative edge over anything the enemy can confront with, in the foreseeable future.”

That's the biggie. Regular bears for up to the second intel, the IDF are. Good at it, too.
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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 02:49:54 AM »
That's the biggie. Regular bears for up to the second intel, the IDF are. Good at it, too.

 :beer:

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 03:03:55 AM »
 :beer:

You seen NCIS? That situation room they have - massive screens, worldwide secure communications? That is bush league stuff.

Was lucky enough to go active with an IDF unit a couple of times in a training and support capacity (they needed a lunatic who could get an ancient attack chopper into tight spaces and out again in mostly one piece), and the stuff they have for both battlefield overview and general intel would make your average SoF green with envy. Everything is recorded. They were using helmet cams regularly back in the 80s, for crying out loud.
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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 03:15:02 AM »
:beer:

You seen NCIS? That situation room they have - massive screens, worldwide secure communications? That is bush league stuff.

Was lucky enough to go active with an IDF unit a couple of times in a training and support capacity (they needed a lunatic who could get an ancient attack chopper into tight spaces and out again in mostly one piece), and the stuff they have for both battlefield overview and general intel would make your average SoF green with envy. Everything is recorded. They were using helmet cams regularly back in the 80s, for crying out loud.

They need to be ready with the latest technology. Their very survival depends on it. If they need assistance, we must be ready to give it to them at a moments notice
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 03:23:21 AM by SPQR »

Offline EC

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Re: Israel considers lease model for KC-46A tankers
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 03:31:05 AM »
Totally agree. They tend to build the best and don't really count the cost, but yep - we need be ready to stand up and give them a hand instantly if needed.
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