Author Topic: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California  (Read 1434 times)

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Offline Cincinnatus

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In a unanimous decision, members of the San Rafael City Council have approved the  strictest smoking ordinance in the country. Effective last week,  Assembly Bill 746 bans residents of apartments, condos, duplexes, and multi-family houses from smoking cigarettes and “tobacco products” inside their homes.

Introduced by Assembly Member Marc Levine and pushed by the Smoke-Free Marin Coalition for over seven years, the ordinance applies to owners and renters in all buildings that house wall-sharing units for three or more families. The purpose is to prevent second-hand smoke from travelling through doors, windows, floorboards, crawl spaces, or ventilation systems (i.e. any conceivable opening) into neighboring units.

Levine said the bill is motivated by his desire to ensure that "Californians [can] breathe clean air in their own homes." He continued, "In apartments or condominiums, whenever a neighbor lights up, everyone in the building smokes with them."

Rebecca Woodbury, an analyst at the City Manager’s office who helped write the ordinance,  explained some of the bill's specifics to ABC News. "It doesn't matter if it's owner-occupied or renter-occupied," she said. "We didn't want to discriminate. The distinguishing feature is the shared wall...I’m not aware of any ordinance that’s stronger."

The bill's proponents cited scientific evidence that shows cigarette smoke is able to travel through the ventilation systems of apartments. Some of this evidence was produced by two  CDC studies, which found that roughly 45 percent of apartment dwellers claimed to have been exposed to second-hand smoke in their homes in the past year.

Some anti-smoking groups, like the American Lung Association, have expressed their support for the legislation. The President and CEO of California's division  said the ordinance is "groundbreaking" and called for a state-wide ban.


http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/25/it-is-now-illegal-to-smoke-in-your-own-h

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Offline SouthTexas

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 03:29:52 PM »
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/25/it-is-now-illegal-to-smoke-in-your-own-h

The modern expression of Carrie nation, the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, and the American propensity to use government to make others better people in spite of themselves.


Really???

These people are full of bovine excrement.

Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 03:44:49 PM »
This is an interesting issue that merits some discussion....
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Online EC

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 04:25:45 PM »
If it is my home I will smoke inside it, outside it, or on top of it if I choose.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 05:01:37 PM »
I'm trying to look at the other side ... What if I owned a condo and 15 or 20 times a day the stink of cigarette smoke came waifing in to the space I owned? Man, that's whack.

I hate the smell of cigarettes. If my spouse took up smoking and a kiss smelled of cigarettes ... That case we'd have some serious issues to work through ...
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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 05:20:04 PM »
I'm trying to look at the other side ... What if I owned a condo and 15 or 20 times a day the stink of cigarette smoke came waifing in to the space I owned? Man, that's whack.

I hate the smell of cigarettes. If my spouse took up smoking and a kiss smelled of cigarettes ... That case we'd have some serious issues to work through ...

Replace stink of cigarette with the smell of bacon to a Vegan. Or next door's curry. Is it still justifiable?
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Offline SouthTexas

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 05:40:18 PM »
I'm trying to look at the other side ... What if I owned a condo and 15 or 20 times a day the stink of cigarette smoke came waifing in to the space I owned? Man, that's whack.

I hate the smell of cigarettes. If my spouse took up smoking and a kiss smelled of cigarettes ... That case we'd have some serious issues to work through ...

It means your air conditioning system isn't worth a flip.

Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 06:45:39 PM »
Clever quips ... But but neither addresses the issue of my neighbor's offensive habit fouling the air in my house.

The aroma of food? Really, EC, you think the two are equivalent? One or two meals a day compared to 15 or 20 cigarettes a day? The stink of tobacco smoke and the smell of bacon? Really?

Got any other points to make?
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 06:54:21 PM »
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the issue of my neighbor's offensive habit fouling the air in my house
Does your neighbor not have any rights within his own house?
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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 06:59:25 PM »
I picked bacon for a reason - it is a persistent and lingering odor that gets into any fabric and stays there. Just like cigarette smoke. Some people find it just as offensive as tobacco smoke, if not moreso. So why would that be any more acceptable?

If smells are moving from condo to condo there is something seriously wrong with the building. Each one is supposed to be self contained, if only to reduce the risk of a fire rapidly and undetectably spreading. Move out - it's a shoddily constructed building.

Residential buildings can certainly be smoke free - it can be included in the lease or in the sales contract - but that is the choice of the owners not the government, state or federal.

Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 07:04:25 PM »
Clever quips ... But but neither addresses the issue of my neighbor's offensive habit fouling the air in my house.

The aroma of food? Really, EC, you think the two are equivalent? One or two meals a day compared to 15 or 20 cigarettes a day? The stink of tobacco smoke and the smell of bacon? Really? 

Yes, really the smell of some foods is just as offensive and lingering.  Loud music is disruptive.  Barking dogs are intrusive.

But, the real issue is what rights do homeowners have? 
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Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 07:17:52 PM »
Exactly. What are my rights as a home owner to clean air?

To many of you it's an issue of government intrusion - but it's also an issue where my right to fresh air is being intruded on by my neighbor. He certainly has a right to smoke, but I shouldn't have to breathe his smoke in my house.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 08:02:43 PM »
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/25/it-is-now-illegal-to-smoke-in-your-own-h

The modern expression of Carrie nation, the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, and the American propensity to use government to make others better people in spite of themselves.
The church I attended for five years was founded by a chapter of the WCTU. I met both surviving founders, both at least in their upper 80s by the time I got to know them. They believed in using the gospel to expose the error of the way of alcohol/tobacco usage, not government (I know at least one was almost certainly a Republican). As it is written, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. I know that certainly the American psyche doesn't like hearing their clutch on booze is causing a whole lot more trouble than it's worth, but that doesn't mean that the likes of the WCTU wants to use the fist of the government to break that clutch.

Nation, on the other hand, was simply a terrorist.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 08:03:24 PM by jmyrlefuller »
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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 08:07:08 PM »
Exactly. What are my rights as a home owner to clean air?

To many of you it's an issue of government intrusion - but it's also an issue where my right to fresh air is being intruded on by my neighbor. He certainly has a right to smoke, but I shouldn't have to breathe his smoke in my house.

Ah! Sorry, I was reading you wrong. Still tired from last night  :laugh:

We getting into the thorns here - you have the right to enjoy your home as you see fit, with a couple of terms and conditions. I have the right to enjoy my home as I see fit, with the same terms and conditions. Which of our rights is paramount?

To dial it back a notch - my daughter lives on a bus route. She can not open her front windows without getting a cloud of diesel fumes and soot and noise wafting in every 12 minutes. Note - it wasn't a bus route originally. What are her rights for clean air and quiet in her own home?

Anyone who tells you you can't buy happiness has never been in a book store or an animal shelter.

You are the result of 3 billion years of evolutionary success. Act like it.

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Offline raml

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 08:14:26 PM »
If you allow the government to control any aspect of an individuals life in their homes then it will want to control all aspects. That is the bad thing about letting the government into your home at all. You are a liberal if you think the way you are thinking aligncare and that is just a fact. I have had to smell some pretty awful cooking smells in my life yet I have never smelt someones cigarette smoking while living in any of my homes unless I allowed someone to smoke in my home which I have since my son and his wife that live by me smoke none of my other children smoke anymore but they still do. I cannot stand the smell of curry but I would never deny a person the right to cook with it just because the smell makes its way over to my home and has me sick to my stomach. A person needs freedom inside their homes or they are being controlled completely and our country is heading that way due to people like you. I was much happier living 40 years ago than today due to people like you aligncare who want to control people actions in their daily life we had a lot more freedom back then and my parents lived to be 94 in that kind of a world a really free world.  There are a lot of actions like drinking that I think is horrible. I can't stand to be around people who drink or a person who does drugs at all but I don't want to control a persons drinking or drug habits in their home only when they are driving on the roads and could kill or injure me immediately not maybe 10 or 20 years from now or using it as an excuse to act like idiots out in public. I hate the smell of Marijuana really hate it and yet I have smelt it coming from homes even with their doors and windows closed but if they are doing it in their own home it is really not my business even if the smell waifs over to mine I would just cover it up with air freshners. I also have air purefiers in my home that work pretty well keeping smells down.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2013, 08:22:46 PM »
Exactly. What are my rights as a home owner to clean air?

To many of you it's an issue of government intrusion - but it's also an issue where my right to fresh air is being intruded on by my neighbor. He certainly has a right to smoke, but I shouldn't have to breathe his smoke in my house.

All well and good until you are forbidden to do something in YOUR home - then what when it is your ox being gored?  Two weeks ago you said you favor the government demanding certain things be removed from our food and now that the government can tell us what to do in our homes (and for the record I ABHOR tobacco smoke)....   but i will take cigarette smoke over the jerk that used to live across the street and thought it was cool to sit in his garage and play loud music into the middle of the night or start his boat up and run it in his driveway for what seemed like forever....  he was not even the owner of the property and thank goodness he eventually moved or I was about to demand we sell our house and move... 

I do not want the government telling me what I can or cannot do within my own home... or tell me what to buy when I go to the market or tell me what car I can drive.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Chieftain

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2013, 08:31:48 PM »
Every year out here as soon as it starts getting cold, we have the woodstove police start monitoring air quality, and when they think conditions are right, they declare a burn ban.  There are supposed to be two stages of burn bans, but last Friday around 4:00 the Southwest Washington Clean Air Agency went right straight to a Stage II ban and it has been in effect ever since.

You are still allowed to heat with firewood in Washington.  When the temps get down into the twenties at night, a heat pump becomes just about useless and you have to have a secondary source of heat.  In forced air systems, the "emergency heat" is electric coils in the system and it is about the most expensive way to heat your home I know of.  But if I turn the heatpump off and use the forced air to circulate the heat we can keep the whole house nice and toasty for a fraction of what it would cost to even try and use the heatpump.

Last January I finally had to send these people a letter threatening to sue them for harassment because I have one crazy neighbor who cannot stand the fact that I "murder trees" and use them to heat my home, and she calls in repeated anonymous complaints about our stove as soon as she sees a burn ban in place.  The Agency accepts anonymous complaints, even repeat anonymous complaints about the same address.  The legislature has even given them authority to write $125 citations, but I have not heard of one being written around here yet, and if they send one to me my lawyer is ready to shove it where the sun does not shine.

But that's what it takes these days to protect yourself from harassment over a 100% legal activity as simple as heating the house in cold weather.


Offline Rapunzel

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2013, 08:35:31 PM »
Is that the same nosy neighbor who was apoplectic over your room addition?

BTW we would still love to see pics of the completed project.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2013, 08:36:15 PM »
Who was it who said the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins? When it comes to cigarette smoke coming into my house, THIS!
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2013, 08:39:51 PM »
Who was it who said the right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins? When it comes to cigarette smoke coming into my house, THIS!

I have a friend who still smokes. I make her smoke outside - don't care how cold it is...   

However the post further up about why it is coming into your home begs the question - why is your ventilation system so poor that it is a problem for you?  They do make some wonder air purifier machines.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2013, 08:42:10 PM »
Like I said, I don't care if my neighbor smokes. But if his smoke is getting into my house, Huston, we have a problem.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2013, 08:44:08 PM »
Like I said, I don't care if my neighbor smokes. But if his smoke is getting into my house, Huston, we have a problem.

What if he is smoking pot?
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2013, 08:48:25 PM »
Is that the same nosy neighbor who was apoplectic over your room addition?

BTW we would still love to see pics of the completed project.

Seconded. Loved that thread.
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2013, 08:48:36 PM »
Like I said, I don't care if my neighbor smokes. But if his smoke is getting into my house, Huston, we have a problem.

If smoke is infiltrating your house from outside, you need to spend some money on new windows, doors and weather stripping.


Offline aligncare

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Re: It Is Now Illegal To Smoke In Your Own Home In San Rafael, California
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2013, 08:58:31 PM »
Then I probably could approach him and let him know that his smoke is getting into my apartment. With a cigarette smoker, it's not the same.

Cigarette smokers can be very belligerent about their smoke bothering people. And, understandably. It's his apartment and he would have every right to tell me to just F off. Which is why I understand the ordinance passed in San Rafael. Addicted smokers in their apartment are not going to very easily relent - even knowing their smoke is getting into a neighbors air space.

Let me ask you. Do you mind it when you're eating at a restaurant and a smoker lights up at the table next to yours? Oh, but that wouldn't happen, would it? Smoking is prohibited in restaurants. For reason.
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