Author Topic: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM  (Read 493 times)

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SPQR

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Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« on: November 23, 2013, 08:58:57 PM »

November 23, 2013: Iran recently opened a factory to produce the Sayyad-2 anti-aircraft missile. This is an upgrade of the Sayyad-1, which was based on the old Russian SA-2 and entered service in 1999. Sayyad 1 and 2 both copied much from the Chinese HQ-2, which is itself an upgrade of the Russian S-75/SA-2 system (from the 1950s). Sayyad-2 appears to have incorporated technology from the American HAWK and Standard surface to air missiles. Sayyad-2 is a two ton, two stage anti-aircraft missile with a maximum range of 80 kilometers and max altitude of 20,000 meters (65,000 feet). The Sayyad-2 has better electronic countermeasures than Sayyad-1 but it is still dependent on the ground radar for guidance to a target and is vulnerable to electronic interference. Sayyad-2 is believed to have a more effective warhead.

The Chinese HQ-2 has been in use since the late 1960s and has been upgraded several times with modern electronics, an improved warhead, better rocket motors, and more maneuverability and turned it into a much more effective HQ-2 early in the 21st century. Iran has been getting military technology from China for over two decades. This apparently included the tech for the solid fuel rocket motors used by the Sayyad-2 and possibly some of the electronics. If an attacker does not have good electronic countermeasures the Sayyad-2 could be quite effective.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20131123.aspx
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 09:00:08 PM by SPQR »

Offline Chieftain

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2013, 09:43:59 PM »
This sounds like an updated version of the venerable old Soviet "flying telephone pole" SAM.  They have the same inherent weakness as all SAMs, in that they depend upon some sort of ground radar for targeting and tracking, and that makes them vulnerable to countermeasures, of which we have a number to select from in our inventory.


SPQR

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2013, 09:45:45 PM »
This sounds like an updated version of the venerable old Soviet "flying telephone pole" SAM.  They have the same inherent weakness as all SAMs, in that they depend upon some sort of ground radar for targeting and tracking, and that makes them vulnerable to countermeasures, of which we have a number to select from in our inventory.

I agree. However, Panama intercepted a North Korean vessel headed to Cuba that contained SA-2 missiles for "modification". What was the modification was I do not know.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 09:47:23 PM by SPQR »

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2013, 09:50:22 PM »
I agree. However, Panama intercepted a North Korean vessel headed to Cuba that contained SA-2 missiles for "modification". What was the modification was I do not know.

That's right!  Cuba claimed they were obsolete and were sending them for overhaul...and as I recall the shipment included a couple of launchers as well as the radar and control units.  Old stuff but certainly not beyond re-engineering....


SPQR

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2013, 09:51:31 PM »
That's right!  Cuba claimed they were obsolete and were sending them for overhaul...and as I recall the shipment included a couple of launchers as well as the radar and control units.  Old stuff but certainly not beyond re-engineering....


Here is the article:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323394504578609271480454176

We all know that Iran and North Korea are allies and share technological information.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 09:52:43 PM by SPQR »

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2013, 10:25:22 AM »
There is, of course, one simple modification that could be made to the targeting system that would render even the venerable SA-2 pretty impervious to ECM.

GPS for general targeting, then optical sensors for the final run. Sure, the guy laser painting the target would probably be caught in the blast himself, but Iran and North Korea have plenty of volunteers for that.

PS - the title is very misleading. Implies something put together out of scrap metal and good wishes.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 10:26:31 AM by EC »
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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 04:31:12 AM »
There is, of course, one simple modification that could be made to the targeting system that would render even the venerable SA-2 pretty impervious to ECM.

GPS for general targeting, then optical sensors for the final run. Sure, the guy laser painting the target would probably be caught in the blast himself, but Iran and North Korea have plenty of volunteers for that.

PS - the title is very misleading. Implies something put together out of scrap metal and good wishes.
.I can see a GLONASS system on it not GPS. The missiles are guided using radio control signals (sent on one of three channels) from the guidance computers at the site. The earlier S-75 models received their commands via two sets of four small antennas in front of the forward fins, while the D model and later models used four much larger strip antennas running between the forward and middle fins.The USSR upgraded the radar several times to improve ECM (electronic counter measure) resistance One version can have a fifteen kiloton warhead on it. They usually have "star of David" configuration.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 05:09:13 AM by SPQR »

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 05:28:46 AM »
True - they are hardened against ECM, but there are no countermeasures effective against optical targeting other than shooting the thing down. Difficult when it comes screaming in at Mach 7. As long as you don't mind losing the odd soldier, it is an incredibly cheap and effective way of ensuring you hit your target.

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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 08:19:50 AM »
.I can see a GLONASS system on it not GPS. The missiles are guided using radio control signals (sent on one of three channels) from the guidance computers at the site. The earlier S-75 models received their commands via two sets of four small antennas in front of the forward fins, while the D model and later models used four much larger strip antennas running between the forward and middle fins.The USSR upgraded the radar several times to improve ECM (electronic counter measure) resistance One version can have a fifteen kiloton warhead on it. They usually have "star of David" configuration.

yep...Russsia just launched another GLONASS satellite last week.  They are determined to install their own global positioning system that is independent from GPS so they can have military control over it.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 08:20:07 AM by Chieftain »

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Re: Air Defense: Iran Scrapes And Scrounges Up A New SAM
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 10:38:20 PM »
yep...Russsia just launched another GLONASS satellite last week.  They are determined to install their own global positioning system that is independent from GPS so they can have military control over it.

Their claim is that is that they want to use it in automobiles

 :silly:


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