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Offline Cincinnatus

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« on: November 20, 2013, 08:40:26 PM »
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 08:41:05 PM by Cincinnatus »
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Online kevindavis

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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2013, 09:11:05 PM »
Is this for real???
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

- Ronald Reagan

Online truth_seeker

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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2013, 09:19:20 PM »
Over 40 years ago, levers were widely used across Europe. I remodeled a house in the mid 80s here, and used levers.

More functional. Used to meet ADA requirements. Widely found in office buildings today in America.

So Vancouver is hardly leading the world, Canada, North America anywhere they weren't already headed.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.ďż˝  Abe Lincoln

Offline Cincinnatus

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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2013, 09:28:45 PM »
More functional. Used to meet ADA requirements. Widely found in office buildings today in America.

So Vancouver is hardly leading the world, Canada, North America anywhere they weren't already headed.


But Truth_Seeker what if I don't want levers and find knobs aesthetically more pleasing? Must I be required to have them, perhaps as an addendum to ObamaCare? Toilets government chooses. Light bulbs government chooses. Now door latches government chooses? Are we to infantile to make any of our own decisions?
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline aligncare

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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2013, 09:31:12 PM »
When I built my house I put in levers instead of knobs. If your hands are full you can open a door with your elbow. Perfect for the busy lifestyle.

Offline Cincinnatus

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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 09:34:03 PM »
When I built my house I put in levers instead of knobs

And I would assume you were allowed to choose whether to install levers instead of knobs, right? That is the real issue here. Who gets to choose? The individual consumer or the government?
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline aligncare

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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 09:36:13 PM »
I'm with you Cincinnatus. I hate the building department. They wouldn't let me do the things that I wanted to do when I built my house. Often without any good reason except "it's against code."
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 09:37:21 PM by aligncare »

Online truth_seeker

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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 09:47:43 PM »
More functional. Used to meet ADA requirements. Widely found in office buildings today in America.

So Vancouver is hardly leading the world, Canada, North America anywhere they weren't already headed.


But Truth_Seeker what if I don't want levers and find knobs aesthetically more pleasing? Must I be required to have them, perhaps as an addendum to ObamaCare? Toilets government chooses. Light bulbs government chooses. Now door latches government chooses? Are we to infantile to make any of our own decisions?
I didn't say I favored them to be imposed on others, in their homes.

I do support use in public places, for they are more functional. I had a friend that was a quad-with limited use of his hands. Not sure if he could turn a doorknob, unassisted.

You do know about "ADA," right?  And more is done in local, civil regulations aimed at public safety. Strapping is required on hot water heaters, against earthquakes. Venting is required on water heaters.

Carbon Monoxide alarms, are replacing smoke alarms. Stair treads must be wide enough, and handrails installed against falls. Unreinforced brick buildings were required to be retrofitted against earthquake damage and dangers. GFCIs reduce electrical appliance accident risks.

Sure some of this type thing is excessive. My father was a home builder, and was often very upset with local authorities.

I get both sides. I have been in both commercial and residential real estate for a quarter century. Owner costs weigh against personal safety, and financial/legal liability.

Anybody owning property where others live or work should be up to speed on these topics.   

 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.ďż˝  Abe Lincoln

Offline Cincinnatus

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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2013, 10:15:11 PM »
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 10:21:49 PM »
Is this for real???

Welcome to Canuckistan...


Online truth_seeker

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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 10:39:59 PM »
Like it or not, "private property" offered for use to others, renting apartments or rooms, renting retail or offices, or even to restaurant customers, fall into "public" uses. This is true, even if it goes against one's political philosophy.

I suppose it depends on one's perspective. The quad fellow I mentioned before, went all out to get public places accessible. He loved sports, and wanted to go to stadiums with ease. He wasn't angry or disagreeable about it. Just felt it should be done.

It comes down to strict libertarian philosophy on the one hand, and living in the world as it actually is, on the other hand.

In my business I have to give way to my clients' wishes and positions. If a buyer takes a hard line requesting many safety repairs, I need to try to get that for them.

If a seller of mine draws the line, and will do few or no repairs, I need to support that position as well.

Rarely do any of them even want to get into the political philosophy like we do here.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.ďż˝  Abe Lincoln

Offline aligncare

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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 08:44:31 AM »
You do know about "ADA," right?

I am well aware of ADA regulations ....

I take a Libertarian approach to issues like ramps, ...

There may be one, perhaps two, wheelchair ramps, but I am not sure every entrance requires them; nor if that would be a good idea. Make a public building accessible to all, that would be fair. But also show some common sense.

Levers may be grand, but freedom is grander.

If I may add to your point.

Every public street corner must have a ramp. Park "2 inches" into that ramp and you will get a hefty ticket. Nevermind that a wheelchair bound individual may, and probably, will, never use that ramp. I repeat, NEVER, will that ramp be used by a wheelchair., you will get a ticket. Letter of the law? Spirit of the law? Loss of freedom? Commonsense?

Online Fishrrman

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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 09:47:11 PM »
[[ Make a public building accessible to all, that would be fair. But also show some common sense. ]]

With increasing frequency, ALMOST ALL public laws (by their very nature and in many cases by intentional design) show absolutely no correlation with the concept of "common sense".

Where's Tom Paine when you need him?


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