Author Topic:  (Read 730 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
« on: November 17, 2013, 10:36:15 PM »

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,422
  • Chief Dork
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 10:53:24 PM »
Yeah baby, that Mr. Obama, he sure raised the level of respect other countries give the US, didn't he.  Just one more broken campaign promise in a list so long it could circle the Earth several hundred times.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,667
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 07:21:13 AM »
Both Obama and Netanyahu need to stop the public sparring.  I'm becoming as weary of Netanyahu as I am of Obama. 
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 32,833
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 07:29:12 AM »
Both Obama and Netanyahu need to stop the public sparring.  I'm becoming as weary of Netanyahu as I am of Obama.

???

What would you rather Netanyahu do?   His country....and ALL its inhabitants are in mortal danger constantly.

And YOU tell us you're weary of him.....nice.  [/s]
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,667
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 07:59:15 AM »
???

What would you rather Netanyahu do?   His country....and ALL its inhabitants are in mortal danger constantly.

And YOU tell us you're weary of him.....nice.  [/s]

Yes, I am growing weary of Netanyahu.  He has been preaching the dangers of Iran for almost two decades .... yet he has done nothing to stop them.  I understand the mortal danger which is why I can't believe the Prime Minister has done nothing in all his years at the top of the Israeli power chain except tell the rest of the world what they must do while threatening to take unilateral action.  If the threat is as dire as he states, why didn't Israel strike Iran like they did Iraq?  A surgical attack early on that put an end to Iraq's nuclear capabilities before it became impossible to do so. 

Hopefully the PM has learned that all his talking about the threat has done nothing to stop it.  The survival of Israel demands it.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 07:59:31 AM »
???

What would you rather Netanyahu do?   His country....and ALL its inhabitants are in mortal danger constantly.

And YOU tell us you're weary of him.....nice.  [/s]

I'm weary of him too. I am weary of my cousins being re-activated in the middle of harvest season, screwing up their years planning. I am weary of getting "Regrets" emails about very old friends and colleagues who got caught in the crossfire. I am weary of keeping the guest room clean so my relatives can come here to safety at a moment's notice.

Mr. Obama, yes, I am weary of you. Shit or get off the damned pot.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,667
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 08:06:48 AM »
I'm weary of him too. I am weary of my cousins being re-activated in the middle of harvest season, screwing up their years planning. I am weary of getting "Regrets" emails about very old friends and colleagues who got caught in the crossfire. I am weary of keeping the guest room clean so my relatives can come here to safety at a moment's notice.

Mr. Obama, yes, I am weary of you. Shit or get off the damned pot.

Obama has "shit".  He's chosen Iran.  Now may be the time for Israel to think about getting off "the damned pot".  And soon.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 08:16:57 AM »
Obama has "shit".  He's chosen Iran.  Now may be the time for Israel to think about getting off "the damned pot".  And soon.

They have been. Those Iranian nuclear scientists didn't just blow themselves up ....

Netanyahu has a small problem. 7 million people, many of them children or elderly or committed to non violence, to face down several hundred million who want them all dead or driven out.

Sure, Jordan has one flank covered - the relations between Israel and Jordan have always been good - but that still leaves most of the border vulnerable. He simply doesn't have the manpower to do more than send in deep teams for targeted strikes.

UN forces are supposed to cover the Gaza strip - it's luck of the draw who you get there. Currently there is a detachment of Nepalese soldiers, so that is pretty solid.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 08:18:58 AM by EC »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline andy58-in-nh

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,185
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2013, 08:38:15 AM »
Yes, I am growing weary of Netanyahu.  He has been preaching the dangers of Iran for almost two decades .... yet he has done nothing to stop them.  I understand the mortal danger which is why I can't believe the Prime Minister has done nothing in all his years at the top of the Israeli power chain except tell the rest of the world what they must do while threatening to take unilateral action.  If the threat is as dire as he states, why didn't Israel strike Iran like they did Iraq?  A surgical attack early on that put an end to Iraq's nuclear capabilities before it became impossible to do so. 

Hopefully the PM has learned that all his talking about the threat has done nothing to stop it.  The survival of Israel demands it.


If a "surgical strike" were quite that easy or imperative, it would have been accomplished by now. But it is not, for a myriad of reasons: lack of ground intelligence as to precise centrifuge locations, hardened facilities co-located beneath civilian population centers, a stealthy means by which to deliver sufficiently-penetrating munitions (likely: GBU-28 bunker busters) so as to avoid Iranian EWS detection (they have many Russian-made and Iranian-improved SAM's and experienced fire control teams on constant alert). Israel may well strike, but there will be heavy casualties, perhaps on both sides.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,667
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 09:25:20 AM »

If a "surgical strike" were quite that easy or imperative, it would have been accomplished by now. But it is not, for a myriad of reasons: lack of ground intelligence as to precise centrifuge locations, hardened facilities co-located beneath civilian population centers, a stealthy means by which to deliver sufficiently-penetrating munitions (likely: GBU-28 bunker busters) so as to avoid Iranian EWS detection (they have many Russian-made and Iranian-improved SAM's and experienced fire control teams on constant alert). Israel may well strike, but there will be heavy casualties, perhaps on both sides.

Good points.  However, if reports are to be believed, an Israeli strike was set for the fall of 2012.  If the reports are true, I'm hoping Netanyahu remembers he chose politics over security....and that it's not a winning strategy for Israel.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline andy58-in-nh

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,185
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2013, 09:33:00 AM »
Good points.  However, if reports are to be believed, an Israeli strike was set for the fall of 2012.  If the reports are true, I'm hoping Netanyahu remembers he chose politics over security....and that it's not a winning strategy for Israel.

I doubt Mr. Netanyahu will ever again make the mistake of taking Obama's word for truth.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,422
  • Chief Dork
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2013, 02:25:36 PM »
Good points.  However, if reports are to be believed, an Israeli strike was set for the fall of 2012.  If the reports are true, I'm hoping Netanyahu remembers he chose politics over security....and that it's not a winning strategy for Israel.

A strike would also bring catastrophic consequences to Israel.  They are, more than anyone else in the world, truly faced with the prospect of choosing between the lesser of two evils, and having to guess which is which.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • TBR Contributor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,667
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2013, 02:41:42 PM »
A strike would also bring catastrophic consequences to Israel.  They are, more than anyone else in the world, truly faced with the prospect of choosing between the lesser of two evils, and having to guess which is which.

Yes, Israel is now between that proverbial rock and hard place.  They're now paralyzed.  But they weren't always.  Ten years ago, Iran could have been "handled" by Israel and Iran's nuclear plans would have been  significantly "altered".  Western powers would still be privately back-slapping the Israelis and thanking them for taking action.   

Instead--all political focus and capital for the past decade has been spent on a great debate with loud, compelling speeches given to convince the world that Israel is right .... that Iran is a mortal threat . . . and that someone had better handle it.   

A terrible waste of precious time.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,422
  • Chief Dork
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2013, 03:55:34 PM »
Yes, Israel is now between that proverbial rock and hard place.  They're now paralyzed.  But they weren't always.  Ten years ago, Iran could have been "handled" by Israel and Iran's nuclear plans would have been  significantly "altered".  Western powers would still be privately back-slapping the Israelis and thanking them for taking action.   

Instead--all political focus and capital for the past decade has been spent on a great debate with loud, compelling speeches given to convince the world that Israel is right .... that Iran is a mortal threat . . . and that someone had better handle it.   

A terrible waste of precious time.


Ten years ago things were a lot different and the threat a lot more speculative.  Hindsight is always 20/20.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf